Environmental Pollution, the thread...

[Briton]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

Is it possible for Western nations to have industry, heavy industry (steel production; mobile phone and car factories) whilst meeting their pollution targets?

It seems a false economy that we have given up a large proportion of our production due to the pollution it creates, only for the gap to be filled with sterile joyless offices which manage the production of these items in countries that don't give a damn. All we've done is allow our jobs to be moved elsewhere for the purpose of shareholder dividends.

It just seems to me that "pollution" has become a very convenient excuse of increasing profit margins by building products in countries where standards are lower, resulting in the tedium for millions of people in the "western world" (I use quotes because of course these countries do not exist solely in one hemisphere) who want productive work in industry but cannot get it because it is being effectively outlawed, which all happens at the expense of people in countries like the US and the UK.

If we could create heavy industry that didn't create loads of pollution, such as steelworks powered by modern nuclear power stations, would companies like Apple who run Bangladeshi death traps have a leg to stand on? No, but of course, they're the ones with the money, and since their shareholders are more important than the livelihoods of the people buying their products, this isn't going to change.

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What is the environmental impact of clearing enormous swaths of land and pumping ginormous amounts of water out of the aquifer for farming?

Check on California for details...

I wonder if WW is aware of the amount of water required for avocado farms?

[Rae'ya]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

Watchful Wanderer has been evicted from this thread, so back on topic peeps...

Having said that, the environmental impact of large scale industry is very relevant to the topic, whether that industry is livestock, fishing, corn crops, carrot crops or manufacturing. No large scale commercial industry has managed to control their environmental impact effectively.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

What is the environmental impact of clearing enormous swaths of land and pumping ginormous amounts of water out of the aquifer for farming?

Check on California for details...

[anunitu]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

The issue is really proper management,and control for ANY process, that if not regulated becomes a polluter of the environment. As Thal mentions a lot,it is the DOSE and not the drug that kills you.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

You clearly do not know the environmental impact that lifestyle can have.

The whole reason the Amazon is being destroyed is so the animal ag industry can use the land for their abattoirs. Speaking of which, what do you think happens to the waste produced by enslaved beings living in those conditions? Why its filtered into the oceans, rivers etc. of course.

Then there's also the CO2 and Methane produced by the practices as well. As for fishing, its getting to the point that many scientists believe we will have fish-less oceans by 2050.

This, is actually somewhat on topic. Unchecked industry, including unchecked food industry has nasty side effects. Unfortunately,

Why is all this happening, because seven billion plus humans want to consume flesh, another species' breast milk, another species' periods etc.

Human consumption of meat predates modern or even early industry by a couple millennia. As such you've gone from condemning industry which is on topic to condemning dietary choices older than said industry

I will not be silent just because you're uncomfortable or think that such things are unrelated.

I entirely agree. You aren't being silent for making Rae'ya uncomfortable (I'm pretty sure that you haven't managed that yet) or because Rae'ya thinks that dietary issues are disconnected from pollution (she might, she might not, don't know, don't care).

You are being silenced because I'm not willing to see this thread turn into yet another rousing rendition of "omnivore vs vegan, winner takes nothing" and because I don't think you have the self restraint to avoid trying to make it exactly that.

[Raphaeline]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

There's no doubt animal agriculture has a huge and terrible impact on the environment; but that's an argument against factory farming, not against eating meat in general. I'm totally in agreement that the way food animals are treated is heartbreaking and so, so wrong - both on behalf of miserable animals and the environment we all depend on. However, I think that means humans need to eat a lot less meat and consume meat with more respect for the food web that supports us.

[Watchful Wanderer]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

This is a thread about environmental pollution and the potential impact on the long term survival of the species that exist in that environment. Don't try to make it about any other topic. Trust me, that wont end well.

You clearly do not know the environmental impact that lifestyle can have.

The whole reason the Amazon is being destroyed is so the animal ag industry can use the land for their abattoirs. Speaking of which, what do you think happens to the waste produced by enslaved beings living in those conditions? Why its filtered into the oceans, rivers etc. of course.

Then there's also the CO2 and Methane produced by the practices as well. As for fishing, its getting to the point that many scientists believe we will have fish-less oceans by 2050.

Why is all this happening, because seven billion plus humans want to consume flesh, another species' breast milk, another species' periods etc.

I will not be silent just because you're uncomfortable or think that such things are unrelated.


Below are three videos that show the environmental repercussions of such actions. You do not have to watch them, but I suggest you do if only for the information - the food for thought - if you will.

[Briton]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

If we continue to inject our waste chemicals into the environment,we can expect at some point to hit a tipping point. In chemistry,components are added in precise quantity to avoid a reaction. With the uncontrolled introduction of elements into the soup that is our natural exosphere,we may be creating the reaction that will go Nova on us as a species.

I know...be nice to Mother earth...

What's frustrating is that the efforts of those who try to recycle and avoid long term pollution, whilst making a significant impact in the longevity of our hospitable environment, pales in significance compares to the countries which just don't give a ****.

[anunitu]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

If we continue to inject our waste chemicals into the environment,we can expect at some point to hit a tipping point. In chemistry,components are added in precise quantity to avoid a reaction. With the uncontrolled introduction of elements into the soup that is our natural exosphere,we may be creating the reaction that will go Nova on us as a species.

I know...be nice to Mother earth...

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

When I was in 7th grade (school year 1969/70) I did a report about air pollution, and I've been interested in environmental issues ever since. A lot of cities have made efforts to clean up since then. The area where I used to live in NJ was a center for paint/brick/tile manufacturing back in the early 1900's and problems remain to this day. Parts of the beach are a superfund site now due to lead slag from those days. (They argue about whether or not hurricane Sandy spread it out so much that it may not be at unacceptable levels anymore, but it's still fenced off.) The response to, cleanup of, governmental involvement in, and moneys dedicated to environmental pollution discovery & cleanup over the last several decades in that area alone have been staggering. Multiply that by all affected places in the world and it seems insurmountable. Perhaps the best we can do is try not to make it worse.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

This is a thread about environmental pollution and the potential impact on the long term survival of the species that exist in that environment. Don't try to make it about any other topic. Trust me, that wont end well.

To clarify this. I'm going to work soon. I will check this thread on my break and when I get home. If I see a raging ethical debate that has nothing to do with pollution then all involved will be forcibly evicted from this thread without further warning.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

And pretending they're omnivorous hunters.

This is a thread about environmental pollution and the potential impact on the long term survival of the species that exist in that environment. Don't try to make it about any other topic. Trust me, that wont end well.

[Watchful Wanderer]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

Stupidity will no doubt be the main factor if indeed we parish. Humans are way to smart for their own interest..like a kid playing with matches.....

And pretending they're omnivorous hunters.

[anunitu]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

Stupidity will no doubt be the main factor if indeed we parish. Humans are way to smart for their own interest..like a kid playing with matches.....

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

If we do usher in an instinction even we will never do that again as we will be the ones extinct. The Earth will heal and life (without us) will go on.

We are going through an extinction event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

The argument, "It doesn't matter because we will go extinct" has to be the most apathetic, anti-intellectual position against current climate science I've ever heard.