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Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

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    #46
    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

    Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
    We find that no amount of laws is a deterrent for crime. So then it comes down to punishment and if possible rehabilitation. Like I posted earlier though, sociopaths and psychopaths are rarely able to be rehabilitated.
    Yes, but in the institution that is the death penalty innocent people get executed, minorities are disproportionately sentenced, and that it is a large cost upon the taxpayer. How do you reconcile that with the fact with your opinion that some people should be killed?

    And I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing some people kick the bucket but if we we are unable to do it without applying it fairly and not kill innocent people how can we do it at all?

    Comment

      #47
      Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

      Originally posted by anunitu View Post
      Point is,people end up being locked up waiting,even though we have a system of Bail..and for minor crimes there is OT(Own recognizance) as in we trust you will show for court.
      Innocent until proven guilty...
      Yes that is true.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
      Yes, but in the institution that is the death penalty innocent people get executed, minorities are disproportionately sentenced, and that it is a large cost upon the taxpayer. How do you reconcile that with the fact with your opinion that some people should be killed?

      And I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing some people kick the bucket but if we we are unable to do it without applying it fairly and not kill innocent people how can we do it at all?
      I will admit that you make a good point. Let me just throw this out there; if say 1 in 25 people are innocent then how do you reconcile that the victims of the other 24 are receiving due justice if the death penalty is done away with. The other thing is this, there are many studies that show that minorities are not so much more targeted but that they tend to commit more crimes therefore a higher percentage of their population being represented. We can attribute this to a higher poverty rate amongst minorities which will indeed skew toward a higher percentage of minority population being represented in the criminal justice system. At least in areas where there is a higher percentage of minority population. The common factor regardless is poverty.

      Comment

        #48
        Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

        Define Justice,is that eye for an eye,or another type of justice? And does eye foe an eye really ease the pain of the person graving for their lost loved one?
        Some feel that using the death sentence(people that have been victims because they lost someone) is almost as bad as what the person did to their loved one.
        I do not know what the proper solution is,BUT I will admit thinking to myself at times "Fry the Mother,the crime was that bad",so I waffle on it at times myself.
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          #49
          Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

          Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post

          I will admit that you make a good point. Let me just throw this out there; if say 1 in 25 people are innocent then how do you reconcile that the victims of the other 24 are receiving due justice if the death penalty is done away with.
          Easily. Justice bought with innocent blood isn't just and the justice system does not exist to provide vengeance.
          Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #50
            Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

            Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
            I will admit that you make a good point. Let me just throw this out there; if say 1 in 25 people are innocent then how do you reconcile that the victims of the other 24 are receiving due justice if the death penalty is done away with. The other thing is this, there are many studies that show that minorities are not so much more targeted but that they tend to commit more crimes therefore a higher percentage of their population being represented. We can attribute this to a higher poverty rate amongst minorities which will indeed skew toward a higher percentage of minority population being represented in the criminal justice system. At least in areas where there is a higher percentage of minority population. The common factor regardless is poverty.
            If justice means that we knowingly kill people who are innocent then that isn't really justice at all. If the death penalty is just a feel-good satisfaction mechanism for the victims then it isn't justice either.



            Also an answer to your second question: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deat...es-who-decides

            Comment

              #51
              Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
              Define Justice,is that eye for an eye,or another type of justice? And does eye foe an eye really ease the pain of the person graving for their lost loved one?
              Some feel that using the death sentence(people that have been victims because they lost someone) is almost as bad as what the person did to their loved one.
              I do not know what the proper solution is,BUT I will admit thinking to myself at times "Fry the Mother,the crime was that bad",so I waffle on it at times myself.
              Some may feel that way but for many others putting to death the killer closes a very painful chapter for them. There is no easy answer to be sure. I think all people have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness until they step over their rights and infringe on another's rights. It's that simple. You can believe, think, say or do anything you want as long as it does not infringe on my rights.

              Comment

                #52
                Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                Iffin' you find out that you've killed an innocent person, can't ya just tell his/her family "Oops. Twenty-four other families got justice, though, so it evens out," and be done with it?

                Is it, maybe, a gross infringment on somebody's rights to kill them for something he/she did not do?

                Are rights really what is being argued here?

                - - - Updated - - -

                Likewise, if PaganMafia says the the justice system is biased against black folk, and Taulmaril counters with "No, it's not black folk, it's poor folk getting screwed," I can't see where or how Taulmaril has added any beef to his aguement because, if any group at all is getting screwed (and both agree that some group is), than PaganMafia has made his point - the justice system is unfair.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                Comment

                  #53
                  Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                  The justice system is catered toward the rich. So is the rest of the world.
                  Ergo the world is unfair.
                  Ergo sky is blue.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                    The justice system is catered toward the rich. So is the rest of the world.
                    Ergo the world is unfair.
                    Ergo sky is blue.
                    QED.

                    Obviously.
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                    Comment

                      #55
                      Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                      I noticed that no one made the-argument that murder is wrong, even if the government is doing it. Just my two cents.

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                        Originally posted by pillar View Post
                        I noticed that no one made the-argument that murder is wrong, even if the government is doing it. Just my two cents.
                        Because it would be irrelevant. Murder is not a synonym for killing. Murder is specifically "the unlawful killing of a human being". The government can be guilty of murder but capital punishment generally won't qualify. Now you can try for "killing is wrong, even if the government is doing it" but expect a lot of counters that have nothing to do with capital punishment.
                        Life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                        Comment

                          #57
                          Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                          I support the death penalty where there is incontrovertible evidence. There's a case going on now in Springfield, MO where a 10 year old girl was taken and killed. Someone saw a man pull her into his car. They found her body in his basement. This is dragging on in the courts for some reason but everyone and their cat's ghost knows he did it.
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                          Comment

                            #58
                            Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                            Murder is wrong but killing is not always murder. If two or three guys are coming at you with baseball bats and you defend yourself by killing one of them so the other two run away that is not murder. It is killing in self defense.
                            Yes, I believe in the death penalty. I do not trust the legal system to determine guilt. I have seen too many abuses of those generating "evidence" and too many jurors who decide guilt on how they "feel" about the accused. Is the death penalty a deterrent for crime? NO! It is one way to rid society of the worst dangers to themselves.
                            The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                            I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                              #59
                              Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                              Self defense fantasies about killing dudes with baseball bats aside, it seems impossible to reconcile all my earlier points with having a death penalty. It is something that "feels" right but so often is not. I think we have this warped sense that justice should be what "feels good" for us and the victims. I have always thought that to be a fundamentally flawed way to view the penal system. I would think that if our intentions were to reduce crime we would focus less on justice and more on what actually reduces crime. Whether it be programs that offer prisoners a future-thus a lower recidivism rate-or addressing the class issues and societal issues that lead to high crime rates in working class communities. That however could be a topic in itself.

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Re: Death Penalty: Support It Or Against It

                                Originally posted by pillar View Post
                                I noticed that no one made the-argument that murder is wrong, even if the government is doing it. Just my two cents.
                                You might want to ask a murder victim about this.
                                oh wait.


                                hey, I know! How about ask a murderer if murder is wrong.
                                Satan is my spirit animal

                                Comment

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