Rune Discussion

Custom Search

Help Support the Pagan Forum

• Forum Rules
• How to submit articles
• Member Articles
• Book of Shadows
• Herbology and Kitchen Witchery
• Spellworking
• Divination
• Mythology And Folklore

[Munin-Hugin]

We have, out there in the Mythology forum, a weekly in depth discussion of the Havamal.  That, combined with the fact that I'm never "full" when it comes to learning new things or new ways of looking at things, gave me an idea.

Would anyone be interested in doing something similar, but rune related?  Every week present three or four runes to be discussed.  Talk about our own personal thoughts on them, experiences, etc.  If enough people would like this, I'm sure it would become a nice guide and study for those interested, both beginner and veteran alike.

[Crimson Horizons]

I'd be interested.  My only question would be which of the various rune sets would we be using?

[Munin-Hugin]

While I have familiarity with a few, I feel most at ease and in tune with the Elder Futhark.  I figure that if anyone wants, they can present the differences and additional runes for the other sets as we go.

[Crimson Horizons]

Fair enough.  Count me in.

[Tylluan Penry]

Me too

[Maythe]

And me.

[Munin-Hugin]

Well, it seems there is definitely interest in all this, and since today is a Wednesday (always a good day to discuss runes), might as well start it up.  Also figured the following would be a good way to kick it off.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I trow I hung on that windy Tree
nine whole days and nights,
stabbed with a spear, offered to Odin,
myself to mine own self given,
high on that Tree of which none hath heard
from what roots it rises to heaven.

None refreshed me ever with food or drink,
I peered right down in the deep;
crying aloud I lifted the Runes
then back I fell from thence.

Nine mighty songs I learned from the great
son of Bale-thorn, Bestla's sire;
I drank a measure of the wondrous Mead,
with the Soulstirrer's drops I was showered.

Ere long I bare fruit, and throve full well,
I grew and waxed in wisdom;
word following word, I found me words,
deed following deed, I wrought deeds.

Hidden Runes shalt thou seek and interpreted signs,
many symbols of might and power,
by the great Singer painted, by the high Powers fashioned,
graved by the Utterer of gods.

For gods graved Odin, for elves graved Daïn,
Dvalin the Dallier for dwarfs,
All-wise for Jötuns, and I, of myself,
graved some for the sons of men.

Dost know how to write, dost know how to read,
dost know how to paint, dost know how to prove,
dost know how to ask, dost know how to offer,
dost know how to send, dost know how to spend?
Posted on: June 17, 2009, 12:11:49 PM

Fehu
     The first rune of the first aett of the Elder Futhark, and is traditionally used to mean "wealth", as well as "cattle".  This is further advanced through it's relationships with Njord, Frey, and Freyja.  Given the phonetic value of "F", the color most associated with it is red.

Each time this one comes up for me, I really feel it as having a rather feminine, warm, earthy touch.  Wealth and fertility tend to walk hand in hand, as one's status could be judged by the amount of livestock one owned.  Yet along with riches, comes the responsibility to use them wisely, and to not horde it.  When it comes down to it, the only wealth a man has after his death is his reputation, so generosity and openness is the key.  One meaning that I took from this rune is that of realized ambition, sort of like the wealth of your mind and body combined.

I would give these keywords for Fehu:  wealth, generosity, responsibility, and finance

---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---



Uruz
     The second rune of the first aett, and has been traditionally used to mean "auroch", which was a rather ferocious species of wild oxen.  Connected to Thor, it has been given the phonetic value of "U", and it's color is red.

Definitely a strong, primal feel from this one, a deep masculine grip.  My great grandmother (born in Poland) used to say that her people were "strong like bull", and just as willful.  That's how this always comes across to me, a solid unyielding force of nature.  Interestingly, it is also related to cattle, much like Fehu, linking the two.  Strength and Wealth of the land, the very things that start it all.

I would give these keywords to Uruz:  to be, survival, primal or inner strength, healthy, and determination

---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---



Thurisaz
     The third rune in the first aett, given to mean "giant", which can be seen in the modern Icelandic word "thurs".  Strongly associated with Thor, it color is red, and is phonetically used as "TH".

Another rune of strength and power, I feel this as pure, burning energy, of a definitive masculine nature.  I also get a sense of conflict from it as well though, being so closely related to Thor yet directly meaning his more hated foes, the Jotun.  Sometimes it comes up as a warning to use one's strengths wisely, because such power can often corrupt or go astray if not contained.

I would give these keywords to Thurisaz:  physical strength, protection (as Thor's containment of the Jotun), power, enhancement, chaos, and energy.

---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---

So we'll start with those three, and see how it goes and if any other interest gets peaked.  Looking forward to hear your thoughts on them!

[Maythe]

Just to add the rune poems:

Fehu/Feoh
OE poem - Wealth is a comfort to any man
yet each person must share it out well
if he wants to win a good name before his lord
Norwegian - Wealth causes kinsmen's strife
the wolf feeds itself
in the woods
Icelandic - Wealth is kinsman's strife
and sea's flame
and serpents way

Uruz/ur
OE - Aurochs is fierce and high horned
the courageous beast fights with its horns
a well known moor treader, it is a brave creature
Norwegian - Slag is from bad iron;
the reindeer often runs
over frozen snow
Icelandic - Drizzle is clouds weeping
and harvests undoing
and herdsman's hatred

Thorn/Thurisaz
OE - Thorn is painfully sharp to any warrior
seizing it is bad, excessively severe
for any person who lays among them
Norwegian - Giant causes women's sickness;
few are glad
at bad luck
Icelandic - Giant is women's sickness
and a dweller on cliffs
and husband of (the giantess) Varthrun.

Translations Stephen Pollington Rudiments of Runelore

I think the differences in meaning between the rune names in the different languages is interesting. Uruz is particularly varied.

[Just a suggestion - maybe better to do one rune at a time?]

[Munin-Hugin]

I thought about one at a time, but then realized, if done one per week, just how long it would take to get through them all.  I figured I'd see how 3 worked out and went from there.

[Tylluan Penry]

Translations Stephen Pollington Rudiments of Runelore

Ah!  Another Pollington fan!  Wonderful! 

[Crimson Horizons]

I agree with Impqueen; doing more than one a week I believe would rush things, and make it a bit more difficult for beginers to keep up with things.  

I do note a different take on Ur (Uruz) from the Younger to the Elder Futhark.  In the Younger, it means "rain", deriving itself from uram, or water, for the Icelandics.  For the Norwegians, Ur represents dross, or slag, coming off of metal.  

[Tylluan Penry]

In my own experience, I would say Feoh concerns wealth but not necessarily money.  I think it's where we get the word 'fee' from. 

Also it can sometimes refer to hidden wealth, the things that make life really worthwhile.

[Crimson Horizons]

Oh, I forgot to mention that in the YF, Fe replaces "cattle" with "livestock".  Not much of a difference, I know, but indicative of the changing times.

[Munin-Hugin]

Ok, so after this time we'll just stick to one a week.

One thing about Fehu that K forgot to mention initially is that I've seen it come across as creativer energy, and relate to the creation and feeding of everything.

[Rick]

Very briefly...


Fehu Letter Value: "F" Phonetic Value: “F”
Translation: Cattle
Kenning: Portable wealth (i.e.: money rather than property). It represents the ability to obtain worldly wealth. Fehu can symbolize beginnings. It is a rune of energy, prosperity & creativity.

Uruz Letter Value: “U” Phonetic Value: "OO"
Translation: Auroch (a wild ox)
Kenning: This is a rune of primal, unbridled power. Uruz in a casting generally means look to your health, don’t neglect yourself. It is a rune of healing; when you need healing in your life, turn to Uruz.

Thurisaz Letter Value: "TH" Phonetic Value: “TH”
Translation: Thurs (Giants, Thor)
Kenning: This is a rune of protection. It symbolizes the power of Mjollnir, Thor’s hammer, in protecting Asgard & Midgard against the Giants. Thurisaz can indicate inner conflict. Magically, it can be used both defensively & offensively.

[Maythe]

It's interesting that the rune poems also indicate the strife that wealth can bring, especially if not shared. So I think Feoh may also have a meaning related to the importance of gifting and sharing wealth.

It would make sense that Uruz would mean health, as it relates to such a strong sturdy creature.

[Tylluan Penry]

I think it's interesting that although we tend to give Feoh the meaning of 'cattle' it's glossed as 'wealth' in the RUne poems.

Also it might be worth pointing out here that although we are using the Elder Futhark, I don't think (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the complete elder Futhark actually makes an appearance in any of the Rune Poems.  The OE and Anglo Saxon versions have the extra Runes added in.

And the names change from one poem to another too. 

I tend to think the Anglo Saxon Rune poem is probably the earliest (based on its style, although the original MS is missing and the printed version is only about 200 years old.)  But what makes the Norse poem so interesting is that it was probably written at a time when Norway was still heathen.  So it's worth considering the Christianisation of the Anglo Saxon poem which slightly distorts the meaning (and which we will probably all notice when we get to Thurs/Thorn)

Just a few thoughts....hope nobody minds me mentioning them. 

[Munin-Hugin]

No, no, not at all.  Something that has always puzzled me is that the Elder Futhark consists of 24 runes, yet in the Havamal it specifically states that Odin learned 18 songs, then proceeds to list the uses of such.

Guido Von List, founder of the Armanen system of runelore, took this to indicate that the original runes should only number 18, a number which does seem to make sense (two sets of 9, duality and Odin's number).

Freya Aswynn believes that these 18 are charms that consist of three runes per charm, not that this indicates the original amount of known runes.

As a system of 18, the Havamal would describe Fehu as:
     The first charm I know is unknown to rulers
     Or any of human kind
     HELP it is named, for help it can give
     In hours of sorrow and anguish

Uruz as:
     I know a second that the sons of men
     Must learn who wish to be leeches (healers)

Thurisaz as:
     I know a third: in the thick of battle
     If my need be great enough
     It will blunt the edges of enemy swords
     Their weapons will make no wounds

[Rick]

The Runatal section of the Havamal says that Odin learned, in so many words, the following songs. It doesn't say that he learned the following runes, or rune charms, or so forth. While most (myself included) believe these stanzas represent individual runes, and some (myself included) think they represent runic charms or formulae, there are a handful (myself not included) that argue they don't represent runes at all. As to there being 18 stanzas & 24 runes, well, there are a lot of literal gaps & holes in the surviving Lore. It's always interesting & fun to discuss such things... it's a pity we'll probably never know the answers to any real degree of certainty.  

[Crimson Horizons]

Well, not while we're on Midgardh, anyway!

[Munin-Hugin]

Trouble with the Von List is that it is often linked to the Thule Society and to Hitler, so is often determined to be tainted.

Speaking of odd associations, I was browsing through my copy of Helrunar by Jan Fries this evening, and came across a few things I'd never noticed before.  There are quite a number of references in there to Aleister Crowley.  Overall, I like the book as it touches on all the various incarnations of the futhark, and even goes so far as to almost combine them into one universal meaning for the shared runes.

[Rick]

  Trouble with von List is that he was linked to the Theosophical Society, the Golden Dawn & occultism.

[Munin-Hugin]

One thing that I really like about Fries' book is that he lists hand signs for each of the runes, which I have found quite useful when meditating on each.  He also touches on trancing, and how our subconscious isn't really all that subconscious, since it tends to pick up more information every day then our conscious minds.  When I've done castings for other people or they've watched as I crafted some charms, they always note that I tend to "go somewhere else" for a while.  It's really just a contemplation of each rune I'm carving or seeing, and it's relation to everything around it.

[Raphaeline]

Uruz is my favorite rune! 

...

I have nothing of substance to add at the moment, but I wanted to say that before the week was up and the cycle went to different runes.  :">

[Munin-Hugin]

Interestingly, I just found this on Freya Aswynn's website.  In her book Leaves of Yggdrasil (which I found out is simply the first edition of Northern Mysteries, AND that she's working on a follow up) she states that the 18 songs from the Havamal are charms, not individual runes, but here's from her site:

I know thou hung from the windy  tree,Nights of all nine. Pierced by thine spear and given to Odin, thineself sacrificed to thineself. On that ancient tree  no-one  knows where of the roots run.None gave thee drink , none gave thee bread. Into the depths thou stared. Thou took up the Runes and fell back , screaming and thine knowledge thou shared.

The first one thou taught me , ‘Help’ it is called
And help it gives to people in sorrow and anguish; FEHU

The second one thou taught me, is needed to be healers; URUZ

The third one thou taught me,
To fetter my foes and blunt their swords; THURISAZ

The fourth one thou taught me, If I am fettered by enemies, I know how to be released; ANSUZ

The fifth one thou taught me, to catch flying arrows sent out in malice. through  its course Will be directed , I will stop it , if my eyes    catch sight of it; RAIDO

The sixth one though taught me, if a man cuts evil Runes on a sapling tree, I know  how  to return the curse; HAGALAZ

The seventh one thou taught me, if I see a Hall ablaze, the flames will not spread to such an extent that I could not help . Such a spell I know how to chant; ISA

The eighth one thou taught me, is useful to know, should a quarrel break out between kinsmen, I ca reconcile them; WUNJO

The ninth one thou taught me, if need arises to save my boat, I can lull the wind over the waves charm the sea to rest; NAUTHIZ

The tenth one thou taught me, if I see phantom demons riding through the sky, I can send them confusion, they lose their senses and their shapes; KENAZ

The eleventh thou taught me, if I have to send my friends in battle, I know how to chant spells over their shields, keeping them safe, and return; ALGIZ

The twelth one thou taught me, if a corpse is hanging on a tree aloft, I know how to cut the Runes and make the man talk to me: TEIWAZ

The thirteenth thou taught me, to protect a young warrior, to sprinkle him with water, he will not fall when he goes into battle: LAGUZ

The fourteenth thou taught me, names and numbers of AESIR and ALFAR. None but the wise can handle this magic: MANNAZ

The fifteenth thou taught me, which Thjodrerir chanted before Dellings door. It gives power to the Aesir, prowess to the Alfar, and foresight to Odin: SOWULO

The sixteenth thou taught me, if I see a man with whom it would please me to play, I can turn his thoughts, and touch the heart of any fair- haired man: GIFU

The seventeenth thou taught me, if I sing it, the man will be slow to forsake me: INGUZ

The eighteenth thou taught me, that I will never tell to boys or married men, except to the love that lies in my arms, or to those I call ‘brother.

This also offers a different order than what we're used to.