Jesus in my daughters bedroom

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[mountain coyote]

First, I have split custody of my beautiful 3 yr old daughter with my ex husband. We both drive about 2 hours to meet to exchange her, so on the way home last night her and I had a good while to talk about her stay with her dad and just things in general. I try very hard not to press any religious views on her as I think she is too young, but we (my fiance and I) make sure to teach her the values that make faith, such as respecting all living things etc... The basic golden rules.

With this in mind, it was a bit of a shock when she informed me that she has a picture of Jesus in her bedroom at her grandmothers house, where she spends a great deal of time when she is with her dad, and that he loves her and she needs to have him in her heart. I really wasnt sure what to say about this without making it into big deal or making her feel bad about it. Also, I dont know how to tactfully ask her very religious grandmother to respect my views and take down the picture and not push the Jesus thing. Im very frustrated.

Any advice?

[Spooky]

if the relationship permits it, speak with her father and in a very level headed way explain how you feel and how you have made a point of keeping a nuetral position...explain that you feel that your daughters youth and nievete are being pointed in a specific direction without her being old enough to make an educated descision.  I very much admire the way you are handling this...many that i know would have been out for blood.

[Simon Slade]

if the relationship permits it, speak with her father and in a very level headed way explain how you feel and how you have made a point of keeping a nuetral position...explain that you feel that your daughters youth and nievete are being pointed in a specific direction without her being old enough to make an educated descision.  I very much admire the way you are handling this...many that i know would have been out for blood.

I agree!
Whatever you do, don't try to push your own religious views on her in an attempt to skew the other side's. That would just confuse her and potentially alienate one or both of you.
Sadly though, if they have told her that much then she may be set on that path for a while. The neutrality may possibly be ruined.
Good luck! Try to stay calm throughout and remember that everything will work out for the best so long as you keep her best interest at heart!

[Dustin86]

Ever remember being told that people who DON'T know about "God" and "Jesus" were going to be saved and go to heaven DESPITE any sins commited, just because they didn't know any better. and that after you've learned about it, then you MUST always follow the bible, or be condemned to hell.... well.... tell grandma she just condemned another! lol. My grandmother used to tell me and my mother that I was damned to go to hell no matter what, because I'm a bastard child that never knew my dad. So, by all means, i think we should snuff out christianity! Then all future generations will go to heaven!

[DeseretRose]

Dustin...that is seriously uncalled for.  If you have your own personal issues and vendetta against Christianity, then fair enough, but venomous ranting in another person's thread doesn't help things.  Don't prove the "pagans just have sour grapes" people right. 

I can see why you're upset, MC.  You don't say much about the personality of the grandmother in question, though.  Assuming that there are no serious problems with her worldview--attitudes which would be problematic no matter what her faith was--then tread gently.  If she loves your daughter, then she is genuinely trying to teach her and guide her to be a happy child.  If she's older, it will be hard for her to understand why this hurts your feelings, and you could burn bridges with people who will be an important part of your child's life for many years to come.  It's entirely possible, too, that no one is pushing anything on your daughter...she may have had questions based on watching her grandmother simply going about her life, and her grandmother responded. 

Personally I would advocate the " Jesus was a nice man" approach, rather then rejecting it outright.  My daughter is 3 1/2, and she's getting to the point where I can talk to her in very simple terms about how different people believe different things, the same way different people have different eye colors, etc.  To me, though, you can't simultaneously work to not press any religious views on her, and push back hard if she's introduced to Christianity.  Maybe it's time for her to be allowed to witness and ask questions about what you do religiously, too. 

[Madness]

Personally I would advocate the " Jesus was a nice man" approach, rather then rejecting it outright.  My daughter is 3 1/2, and she's getting to the point where I can talk to her in very simple terms about how different people believe different things, the same way different people have different eye colors, etc.  To me, though, you can't simultaneously work to not press any religious views on her, and push back hard if she's introduced to Christianity.  Maybe it's time for her to be allowed to witness and ask questions about what you do religiously, too. 

Excellent response!

I grew up in an atheist household that was very open about discussing beliefs.  Because my grandmother paid for it, I attended Episcopal private schools (kindergarten and then 7-12th grade).  It didn't "scar" me in anyway.  Granted, the higher level schools, I could already think for myself.  But my parents didn't really bat an eye about me going to a kindergarten that was religious.  I know it's different when a family is the one pushing the religion.  But I don't think it's going to "ruin" your kiddo.

So be open about what you believe - nothing complicated or anything.  And just let your kid absorb all of it.  A friendly conversation with grandma might be in order though - nothing critical, just getting everybody on the same page.  Especially if she doesn't know you are pagan.  You don't want your daughter going to her house and saying that she needs the Goddess in her heart - could create more of stir than you want if she doesn't know your leanings! 

[thalassa]

I have to agree with DR and Madness.  I have a an almost 3 year old little girl and a 1 1/2 year old little boy...  Sophie knows about Jesus in a round about "nice man that some people think are very important" kind of way.  Our entire family is one denomination of Christian or another, so she's heard that Jesus loves all the little children (hmmm...there's another song that could use some paganification)...but as far as she is concened, he's not important...heck, Thomas the Tank Engine is more real to her than Jesus.   

[mountain coyote]

Her grandmother does know that I am pagan and tends to push the christian thing on me as well. When I was in the process of getting divorced she frequently told me that I would find more comfort in my life if I just accepted the savior into my heart. This was despite my always replying that I find a great deal of comfort and peace in my religion, but that I appreciated her concern. Im somewhat inclined to think that she is trying to save my daughter from my heathen ways.

Ive had the "Jesus is a nice man" discussion with my daughter and she seems to relate him somewhere along the line of Santa or the Easter bunny, a novel concept but not a major factor in her life. I take comfort in that fact, and that smearing any chapstick she can find on herself as a much higher priority then the picture in her other bedroom.

[thalassa]

I take comfort in that fact, and that smearing any chapstick she can find on herself as a much higher priority then the picture in her other bedroom.

Lol, she sounds *just* like my daughter!

[Tylluan Penry]

Her grandmother does know that I am pagan and tends to push the christian thing on me as well. When I was in the process of getting divorced she frequently told me that I would find more comfort in my life if I just accepted the savior into my heart. This was despite my always replying that I find a great deal of comfort and peace in my religion, but that I appreciated her concern. Im somewhat inclined to think that she is trying to save my daughter from my heathen ways.

I'm sure grandmother is only acting out of love for your daughter.  It may even be that the picture of Jesus was in the room before your daughter slept in it regularly.

However, given that you say your former mother-in-law does tend to be a bit persistent, I would suggest you quote the Bible back at her.  St John's Gospel chapter 14 verse 2 : 'In my father's house are many mansions' (that's from the King James' Bible; other versions usually say 'many rooms' or 'many dwelling places.')  My father always quoted this to show there were many different paths to heaven and that your beliefs in this life were never as important as people like to make out.

[magusjinx]

Just curious about your daughters age ... How much of an interest in your beliefs does she show? ... What are her fathers beliefs? ...

As far as any confrontation or discussions I would lean towards talking to the father since she is hid child and not his mothers ... As to what to tell your daughter about Jesus I am in line with just that he was a person who lived long ago and tried to teach people a kinder and gentler way of life ... If she asks questions about your beliefs then give her short and simple answers ... Not the whole A to Z about Paganism ... Just the stuff that she can understand easily ... Somewhere in here there are some kids threads ...

[thalassa]

Im somewhat inclined to think that she is trying to save my daughter from my heathen ways.

If you think about it from her perspective...she is.  I mean, as a parent I would never let my child do certain things that would endanger her well being...I don't think that changes when you become a grandparent.  Its not PC, and it seems neither right nor fair on the recieving side, but in her belief, your beliefs *are* dangerous--to your (and your daughters) immortal soul...and no amount of talking to her will probably do anything but cause problems, if she already knows how you feel about it.

If its bad enough, maybe you need to think about how to approach the subject with your ex and the grandma...but if its just a picture of Jesus and the occasional mention of him...I don't know that I would make a big deal out of it.  She is going to encounter this--and sometimes worse--her entire life, if she decides to be Pagan.

I think you would be better off buying a couple of kiddie books that talk about other world views, and about some that are similar and complimentary to yours so that she is exposed to as many ideas as possible.  Read them at bedtime...let her take her favorites with her.  

There are actually quite a few pagani-ish kids books out there, and some for the toddler/preschool level. (we have a short book/website list here).

[Simon Slade]

J If she asks questions about your beliefs then give her short and simple answers ... Not the whole A to Z about Paganism ... Just the stuff that she can understand easily ...

I'd say to focus on the earth being special and needing protection. I'd stay away from the holy and mystical aspects of everything.

[Fiamma]

I'd say to focus on the earth being special and needing protection.

What if that's not the OP's personal focus?

[Simon Slade]

What if that's not the OP's personal focus?

I was assuming that as a pagan it was at least part of her focus (I could be wrong and correct me if I am) and that would be one of the easier aspects for her daughter to understand without pushing a religion onto her.

[Paganagain]

I wouldn't worry about it. Let the Jesus pic remain in her bedroom.... after all, it is only a pic. There is always plenty of time for her to know and understand your views... and choose one of her own.

[moonlion]

but we (my fiance and I) make sure to teach her the values that make faith, such as respecting all living things etc... The basic golden rules.

(...)
Also, I dont know how to tactfully ask her very religious grandmother to respect my views and take down the picture and not push the Jesus thing. Im very frustrated.

I am a Pagan, my wife is agnostic, but my oldest daughter (she is 13) still goes to Catholic Religion classes in school.

IMHO, the important thing is to discuss what she is learning about the bible as well as Jesus. My wife and I did not baptize our 2 daughters because we decided that when they are 18 they can choose what religion they want to adopt.

I do not want my daughter to be a Pagan because I am one.

And like you said yourself: you don't know how to ask your grandmother how to respect YOUR views, not your daughter ones.

[The_Elementalist]

Just curious about your daughters age ... How much of an interest in your beliefs does she show? ... What are her fathers beliefs? ...

As far as any confrontation or discussions I would lean towards talking to the father since she is hid child and not his mothers ... As to what to tell your daughter about Jesus I am in line with just that he was a person who lived long ago and tried to teach people a kinder and gentler way of life ... If she asks questions about your beliefs then give her short and simple answers ... Not the whole A to Z about Paganism ... Just the stuff that she can understand easily ... Somewhere in here there are some kids threads ...

Fiance' here, her father's beliefs are strictly navy class christianity, as he is the pastor's helper or some other waddock.

[thalassa]

Fiance' here, her father's beliefs are strictly navy class christianity, as he is the pastor's helper or some other waddock.

If he's an RP and he's being an ass about this, he's not very good at his job...

RP's are chaplain's assistants (the job is called Religious Programming Specialist) and body guards (when in the field)...and quite often, they aren't Christian.

[The_Elementalist]

If he's an RP and he's being an ass about this, he's not very good at his job...

RP's are chaplain's assistants (the job is called Religious Programming Specialist) and body guards (when in the field)...and quite often, they aren't Christian.

iv been hating the guy for 2 years :3

[earthfire]

I would simply inform your daughter that you are a pagan, and that if a personal relationship with Jesus is necessary to go to Heaven, you won't be there. But the most important thing is to let her know that you'll love her no matter what she chooses to believe. And I personally do not take children's posistion's on religion, and politics seriously, as they often times are not very informed, and/or mature intellectually. So they'll mostly just accept whatever adults tell them without questioning it much. The only thing that would concern me would be if your daughter does not know of your beliefs on the subject of religion. Remember that if you do not teach her about divinity, as you understand it to be, others will.

[DeseretRose]

I would simply inform your daughter that you are a pagan, and that if a personal relationship with Jesus is necessary to go to Heaven, you won't be there. But the most important thing is to let her know that you'll love her no matter what she chooses to believe. And I personally do not take children's posistion's on religion, and politics seriously, as they often times are not very informed, and/or mature intellectually. So they'll mostly just accept whatever adults tell them without questioning it much. The only thing that would concern me would be if your daughter does not know of your beliefs on the subject of religion. Remember that if you do not teach her about divinity, as you understand it to be, others will.

I'm not sure a three year old will grasp a concept as complex as your first sentence.  It might be different for the OP (and this thread *is* rather old now--for all we know it's been long taken care of), but saying that to my three year old would lead to misunderstandings, even being terrified that I wasn't going to heaven.  The logical leap just isn't there quite yet with a child this age. 

[mountain coyote]

This has been an on-going and seemingly up hill battle. When I tried to talk to my ex about it he told me quite literally, "No, Im christian and I think she needs to be taught  christian values." So I havent gotten anywhere. He actually tried to tell me that we cant teach her basic things such as not lying without the ten commandments and therefore christianity.  Last time I checked, things like that can be taught without having it seem like if you do do something like that, that you have some great unseen power going to come, spank you and put you in the corner. Im pretty certain that is a parents job.

On a side note, I was discussing this with my mother and she pointed out that my sisters and I went to all kinds of religious services with our friends. I know I went to everything from Buddhist temples to loud, crazy, holly roller gospels and everything in between. This is the path I chose, one of my sisters is married to a minister and my other is staunch catholic. WE decided when we were old enough as to what fulfilled our lives and my mom supported us all. Hopefully something similar will work for Lou.