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  • Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

    Blessed be to all! My name is Marcus and I am honored to be a new member on this site. Writing is both as a job (I am a Japanese/Mandarin Chinese>English translator) and a hobby (I write poetry, lyrics, and occasionally, short stories). I have always been interested in languages, ESPECIALLY Mandarin and Japanese. What about any of you? Are there any Linguistic Pagans on this site? If there are, I would love to hear from you! Also, if someone has questions regarding certain translations of Mandarin Chinese, Japanese or Spanish text, please feel free to ask me!

  • #2
    Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

    I've always been fascinated by linguistics and took a few classes in the subject in college (where I was introduced to work by Whorf, Chomsky, and Pinker). I don't speak any languages other than English fluently, but I've had some exposure to French, Russian, Biblical Hebrew, koine Greek, and German (as well as the phonology of some other languages when I sang classical music); I'm currently learning modern Greek, but I couldn't speak it any better than the average Greek toddler at this point.
    OO

    Book of Spirals is my author site.
    The Sentient Hillside is my blog.
    Spiral Tree is an ezine for pagans I co-founded.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

      やっぱり、私にはこんなトピックを堪らないんですよね!^^ じゃ、私も何も外国語をペラペラ話せないけど 、日本語で中級です。この間、日本語の力試験二級の模試を試してみたら、思ったより悪くなかったのに、読め る漢字は少なすぎるし、文法をいつも間違っているし、そして、本格的な試験を受ければ合格できるかどうか知 りません。日本語の外には、ドイツ語にも興味があるけど、言語にはまっているのに、語学になんだか弱いんで す。私にとって、二つの言語を習うのは無理だと思います。それにもかかわらず*、言語学がものすごく大好き ですよ!いつか日本語でうまくなったらいいですね!

      [Translation] It will come as no surprise that I couldn't resist a topic like this! ^^ Well, I too don't speak any foreign languages fluently either, but I'm an intermediate at Japanese. I recently took a mock exam for the JLPT N2 (upper intermediate level Japanese Language Proficiency Test), and while it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be, I can't read enough kanji and I make too many grammar mistakes, so I don't know if I could pass if I took the real exam. Besides Japanese, I also have an interest in German, but despite the fact I am obsessed with languages, I'm not actually very good at learning them. So I think for me, two languages would be impossible. Despite all that*, I absolutely adore linguistics! I hope I become good at Japanese one day!

      (Any excuse to make a bilingual post on PF, lol)

      *The use of this word was kinda excessive, but I have been waiting for a reason to use it for ages, and it's not generally used in casual conversation. I thought the formal tone of my Japanese here allowed for its use, but I wonder what the OP thinks ^^

      EDIT;

      Wait.. I only just realised this was first posted way back on my birthday. Really?? I missed a Japanese thread for THAT long? Hmm, I hope the OP comes back then. I wanted to discuss some things, like..

      For some reason, I thought the use of 異教徒 was a bit strong so have always avoided it when trying to describe my religion. I just tell them what it is called in English, as it just seems like a more accurate way of referring to it. As a translator, do you find this expression doesn't give off a bad impression to a Japanese reader who might not be familiar with paganism as a religious movement in the West? I started using lang-8 (only one post so far though) and I intend to write a post about paganism there, and compare it to Shinto. I'm hoping to get some feedback on the subject from native speakers, that I can translate and bring to the Shinto thread on PF. I was going to ask then, how best to describe my religion, but as you used the word, I guess it wouldn't hurt to get your thoughts on it. (I'm actually seeing a Japanese friend who works as a translator later today, but she is a church going Christian so I tend avoid the subject with her).
      Last edited by Jembru; 17 Aug 2013, 22:34.
      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

        I never really got into linguistics itself, but I have an interest in languages. I'm a professional writer, and I'm bilingual. I'm more bilingual due to situation (I'm a native English speaker living in Germany), but I do have an interest in the German language as well, even if I never formally studied it.

        I want to improve my French. I was almost bilingual (I didn't speak German at the time) at the end of high school, but after I moved to Germany, I forgot almost all of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

          I speak Indonesian
          ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

          RIP

          I have never been across the way
          Seen the desert and the birds
          You cut your hair short
          Like a shush to an insult
          The world had been yelling
          Since the day you were born
          Revolting with anger
          While it smiled like it was cute
          That everything was shit.

          - J. Wylder

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

            Originally posted by Ouranos Ouroboros View Post
            I've always been fascinated by linguistics and took a few classes in the subject in college (where I was introduced to work by Whorf, Chomsky, and Pinker). I don't speak any languages other than English fluently, but I've had some exposure to French, Russian, Biblical Hebrew, koine Greek, and German (as well as the phonology of some other languages when I sang classical music); I'm currently learning modern Greek, but I couldn't speak it any better than the average Greek toddler at this point.
            Sorry for the late reply! I mean WAAAAY late...I really need to find ways to get updates about threads. I sincerely apologize. I took five years of French and would have LOVED to learn Russian. I don't want to learn ancient Greek because (and please correct me if I'm wrong) I have heard that much of the pronunciation is theoretical, and it kind of makes me a bit uncomfortable that I might be pronouncing the words in ways the natives never did. I learned a year and a half of German, but it is barely survival level German. Modern Greek is a language I would definitely like to learn, but there are simply no teachers here

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by Heka View Post
            I speak Indonesian
            Indonesian seems like a most interesting language.

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
            I never really got into linguistics itself, but I have an interest in languages. I'm a professional writer, and I'm bilingual. I'm more bilingual due to situation (I'm a native English speaker living in Germany), but I do have an interest in the German language as well, even if I never formally studied it.

            I want to improve my French. I was almost bilingual (I didn't speak German at the time) at the end of high school, but after I moved to Germany, I forgot almost all of it.
            I envy anyone with proficient German because I would have loved to have had the opportunity to (only a year and a half of German does not a proficient person make).

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

              Originally posted by Simatong View Post
              I envy anyone with proficient German because I would have loved to have had the opportunity to (only a year and a half of German does not a proficient person make).
              You can say that again! That is just about exactly how long I spent on German. The quality of adult language learning in the UK is appauling though. I studied from Deutsche Welle's 'Deutsche: Warum nicht!' series for a few months before I moved out there and then continued while I was there. When I came back to England, I started taking evening classes and was instantly moved from the beginners class to intermediate (yup, apparently by UK standards, you are intermediate if you know the rules for conjugating verbs and adjectives, I mean, what??). Then about 3 months later, because I was still studying from the podcast lessons, I was moved into the advanced class. I have taught English as a second language, so I think I have a rough idea of what characterises the stages of language aquisition and I don't think learning to use subordinate conjunctions is exactly 'advanced' (mid to late beginner at best). We were pushed to use German while doing groupwork, and our teacher (a native speaker) held a regular Stammtish, so I used to try to converse, but I wasn't conversational. I didn't have enough words at my command for a start, never mind the fact I couldn't remember the gender of words I DID know, so coudn't conjugate adjectives correctly and so on...
              夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                やっぱり、私にはこんなトピックを堪らないんですよね!^^ じゃ、私も何も外国語をペラペラ話せないけど 、日本語で中級です。この間、日本語の力試験二級の模試を試してみたら、思ったより悪くなかったのに、読め る漢字は少なすぎるし、文法をいつも間違っているし、そして、本格的な試験を受ければ合格できるかどうか知 りません。日本語の外には、ドイツ語にも興味があるけど、言語にはまっているのに、語学になんだか弱いんで す。私にとって、二つの言語を習うのは無理だと思います。それにもかかわらず*、言語学がものすごく大好き ですよ!いつか日本語でうまくなったらいいですね!

                [Translation] It will come as no surprise that I couldn't resist a topic like this! ^^ Well, I too don't speak any foreign languages fluently either, but I'm an intermediate at Japanese. I recently took a mock exam for the JLPT N2 (upper intermediate level Japanese Language Proficiency Test), and while it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be, I can't read enough kanji and I make too many grammar mistakes, so I don't know if I could pass if I took the real exam. Besides Japanese, I also have an interest in German, but despite the fact I am obsessed with languages, I'm not actually very good at learning them. So I think for me, two languages would be impossible. Despite all that*, I absolutely adore linguistics! I hope I become good at Japanese one day!

                (Any excuse to make a bilingual post on PF, lol)

                *The use of this word was kinda excessive, but I have been waiting for a reason to use it for ages, and it's not generally used in casual conversation. I thought the formal tone of my Japanese here allowed for its use, but I wonder what the OP thinks ^^

                EDIT;

                Wait.. I only just realised this was first posted way back on my birthday. Really?? I missed a Japanese thread for THAT long? Hmm, I hope the OP comes back then. I wanted to discuss some things, like..

                For some reason, I thought the use of 異教徒 was a bit strong so have always avoided it when trying to describe my religion. I just tell them what it is called in English, as it just seems like a more accurate way of referring to it. As a translator, do you find this expression doesn't give off a bad impression to a Japanese reader who might not be familiar with paganism as a religious movement in the West? I started using lang-8 (only one post so far though) and I intend to write a post about paganism there, and compare it to Shinto. I'm hoping to get some feedback on the subject from native speakers, that I can translate and bring to the Shinto thread on PF. I was going to ask then, how best to describe my religion, but as you used the word, I guess it wouldn't hurt to get your thoughts on it. (I'm actually seeing a Japanese friend who works as a translator later today, but she is a church going Christian so I tend avoid the subject with her).
                Jembruみたいな人に会えてよかったですね!ここで日本語が話せる人に会いたいですが、ここのポスト( オリジナル)を書いていたときに、「日本語が好きな人がいないだろう」と思っていた。けれど、 別のポスト (魔法に与える言語の影響についてのポスト)を読んだ後で「ここに日本語が好きな人がいる!」って思った。 すごくうれしいですね。私もLang-8でブログしている。(最近は英語を学んでいる人の文章を直しているけど, すぐに自分のブルグを書く!
                I am so happy that I was able to meet someone like you, Jembra! I want to meet who can speak Japanese on here, but as I was writing this post (the original one), I thought to myself "Nah, probably won't be anyone". But, after reading the other post (the influence of language on magic), I was like "There ARE other people on here who like Japanese!". I am really happy. I also blog on Lang-8 (Recently, I have been correcting the sentences of those learning English, but will soon be writing blogs of my own!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                  Damn, I WISH cloud was working so I could reply in Japanese.. boo..

                  I too (as many will tell you) have waited ages for someone to speak to in Japanese on PF. We have had Japanese threads in the past, but I just get too enthusiastic and make the OP's rage quit. I don't mean it, I am just really passionate about the language so want any excuse to talk about it.

                  When you start blogging, if you wish, I'll add you on lang-8. I have a post waiting to go up but I'm nervous. I typo so much when I write Japanese, because I'm not used to seeing it like I am English. I face-palmed so much when I read the corrections on my first post, for mistakes I really should have picked up myself when I proof-read. So, I'm kinda putting off posting this latest one. I just want to read it another 30 times first. ^^

                  Oh I was recently made moderator on a Japanese forum. I'm kinda nervous about telling you this, because there are some videos of my appauling speaking ability (I use the term ability lightly) on there as well as.. oh countless sloppy, hastily written posts in Japanese, but I think we'd love to have someone who knows the language well on there. I erm... I moan and winge a lot on their too though. It's at japanese.freeforums.org and my username is the same!
                  夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                    ね、Simatongさん, 外の日本語に関しているトピックをもう見ましたか?申しよかったら、これを復 活させましょう!

                    This thread is for questions about Japanese pronunciation, grammar, etymology, etc. I've intended this to be supplementary to kijani's The Japanese Language Learning Thread (v2.0) (http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?2029-The-Japanese-Language-Learning-Thread-(v2-0)), so please ask any major questions about learning


                    久しぶりなのに、また文法について話し合いたいんです!私は質問を聞いた以来自分でほとんどの答えを見つけ たけど、Simatongさんの感想も知りたいんですが。

                    ところで、貴方の名前は中国語だから、日本語で出てこない漢字は使われますね。そう言う訳でこれまでローマ 字で書いてますが、カタカナで「シマトン」になるかも知れませんね。そして、シマトンを呼んだらよろしいで しょうか?


                    Hey, Simatong, have you seen the other Japanese threads yet? If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could revive this one.. (I don't need to repeat the link, right?).

                    It's been a while, but I'd love to discuss grammar once again! Since I asked them, I've found most of the answers to my questions, but I'd like to hear your take on them too.

                    Btw, as your name is Chinese, it's written with kanji that aren't found in Japanese right? As such, I've been writing your name in romaji until now, but it would probably be 'Shimaton' in katakana, right? So, would you mind if I called you Shimaton?
                    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                      oopse.. see, right away there's a typo. I'm sure you knew, but I did of course mean もし not 申し.. I'm hopeless ^^ (sorry for the triple post but I couldn't just leave that hanging there ^^)
                      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                        Growing up in a home where my mother was a Spanish teacher (although we have no Hispanic heritage), I am fairly decent at understanding Spanish, and I can speak it well enough to be understood, although not always correctly. I've always been fascinated in language, and am considering studying linguistic anthropology in college.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                          For me, interest in linguistics is a large part of what led me to paganism.
                          I've been interested in linguistics for a long time. My mother always used to teach me English words along with their Latin etymologies, so I found I could recognize latin words at a very early date. Later I took Spanish, but it was never my favorite language. I later became interested in Proto-Indo-European, and its daughter languages. As someone slightly acquainted with Hebrew, I also began to learn about the Semitic languages. Somewhere along the way, I became interested in the reconstruction of Proto-Indo-European and Proto-Semitic religious traditions as well. In particular, I was interested in the connection between the Hebrew religion and that of their pagan neighbors. I noted with interest the term "Adonai" for instance, and the corresponding cognates found elsewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean.

                          Much later, I began to focus on Slavic culture, partially due to my own ancestry. I chose Russian as my main focus on Slavic linguistics, simply because it is widely considered the most useful. I wanted to learn Russian in college, but my university didn't offer it. I have the internet and some books to help me learn Russian, but I am still very obviously unschooled.
                          If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                            Originally posted by Simatong View Post
                            Indonesian seems like a most interesting language.

                            -
                            Indonesian is also a most simple language
                            ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                            RIP

                            I have never been across the way
                            Seen the desert and the birds
                            You cut your hair short
                            Like a shush to an insult
                            The world had been yelling
                            Since the day you were born
                            Revolting with anger
                            While it smiled like it was cute
                            That everything was shit.

                            - J. Wylder

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Enter the Linguistic Pagan! 参上!言語学の異教徒!

                              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                              You can say that again! That is just about exactly how long I spent on German. The quality of adult language learning in the UK is appauling though. I studied from Deutsche Welle's 'Deutsche: Warum nicht!' series for a few months before I moved out there and then continued while I was there. When I came back to England, I started taking evening classes and was instantly moved from the beginners class to intermediate (yup, apparently by UK standards, you are intermediate if you know the rules for conjugating verbs and adjectives, I mean, what??). Then about 3 months later, because I was still studying from the podcast lessons, I was moved into the advanced class. I have taught English as a second language, so I think I have a rough idea of what characterises the stages of language aquisition and I don't think learning to use subordinate conjunctions is exactly 'advanced' (mid to late beginner at best). We were pushed to use German while doing groupwork, and our teacher (a native speaker) held a regular Stammtish, so I used to try to converse, but I wasn't conversational. I didn't have enough words at my command for a start, never mind the fact I couldn't remember the gender of words I DID know, so coudn't conjugate adjectives correctly and so on...
                              You know, I would find that troubling if I hadn't considered it something like the norm here in the U.S. Admittedly, most of it seems to be the students fault (You HONESTLY want to major in a foreign language, all the while thinking that studying 3 hours a week in class is enough?!), but at the same time, I honestly think the schools need to be A LOT stricter. Sometimes I think about multilingual places like Belgium and wonder if many of them roll their eyes or point and laugh at the ridiculousness of it. How bad can it get in the U.S? I was in ADVANCED Chinese class my final year of college, and the main focus was reading stories that inspired Chinese proverbs, with all the stories written in INTERMEDIATE Chinese. My classmates barely understood the grammar and the vocab, and so we spent like, what was it...about a week or more trying to grammatically dissect a story that should have taken no more than 5 minutes to read!! It got so bad that my professor told me to just skip the class altogether (I think though that this also might have had to do with allowing me time to write my Chinese thesis, but still...) Unfortunately, it seems like it gets WORSE with Japanese classes, and I think you might understand by me simply writing one word: Otaku. Now mind you, I like video games and anime too, but when that is ALL one obsesses about, it really hinders their ability to learn and in turn causes the entire class to suffer. I had classmates in advanced Japanese who could barely say something along the lines of "I have to go to the bathroom". It got so bad that my Japanese professor (Goddess bless her kind and patient heart!) had to review intermediate grammar, taking time away from learning the necessary advanced grammar. And don't even get me started on the TEST scores *rolls eyes*

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                              ね、Simatongさん, 外の日本語に関しているトピックをもう見ましたか?申しよかったら、これを復 活させましょう!

                              This thread is for questions about Japanese pronunciation, grammar, etymology, etc. I've intended this to be supplementary to kijani's The Japanese Language Learning Thread (v2.0) (http://www.paganforum.com/showthread.php?2029-The-Japanese-Language-Learning-Thread-(v2-0)), so please ask any major questions about learning


                              久しぶりなのに、また文法について話し合いたいんです!私は質問を聞いた以来自分でほとんどの答えを見つけ たけど、Simatongさんの感想も知りたいんですが。

                              ところで、貴方の名前は中国語だから、日本語で出てこない漢字は使われますね。そう言う訳でこれまでローマ 字で書いてますが、カタカナで「シマトン」になるかも知れませんね。そして、シマトンを呼んだらよろしいで しょうか?


                              Hey, Simatong, have you seen the other Japanese threads yet? If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could revive this one.. (I don't need to repeat the link, right?).

                              It's been a while, but I'd love to discuss grammar once again! Since I asked them, I've found most of the answers to my questions, but I'd like to hear your take on them too.

                              Btw, as your name is Chinese, it's written with kanji that aren't found in Japanese right? As such, I've been writing your name in romaji until now, but it would probably be 'Shimaton' in katakana, right? So, would you mind if I called you Shimaton?
                              リンクありがとう!文法について話すのが大好き!僕はそのポストを見る!
                              そう。Sima Tongは中国語の名前だ。シマトンって?この名前はokだけど、本当の名前はカタカナでマーカスと書かれ るので、その名前を使いたければokだ。でもね、シマトンが好きになれるかもしれないかなぁ
                              Thanks for the link! I love talking about grammar! I'll go take a look at that post!
                              That's right. Sima Tong is a Chinese name. Shimaton? That name is okay, but you can also use Maakasu since that's how my real name is written in Japanese. But you know, Shimaton just might grow on me .

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by Yazichestvo View Post
                              For me, interest in linguistics is a large part of what led me to paganism.
                              I've been interested in linguistics for a long time. My mother always used to teach me English words along with their Latin etymologies, so I found I could recognize latin words at a very early date. Later I took Spanish, but it was never my favorite language. I later became interested in Proto-Indo-European, and its daughter languages. As someone slightly acquainted with Hebrew, I also began to learn about the Semitic languages. Somewhere along the way, I became interested in the reconstruction of Proto-Indo-European and Proto-Semitic religious traditions as well. In particular, I was interested in the connection between the Hebrew religion and that of their pagan neighbors. I noted with interest the term "Adonai" for instance, and the corresponding cognates found elsewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean.

                              Much later, I began to focus on Slavic culture, partially due to my own ancestry. I chose Russian as my main focus on Slavic linguistics, simply because it is widely considered the most useful. I wanted to learn Russian in college, but my university didn't offer it. I have the internet and some books to help me learn Russian, but I am still very obviously unschooled.
                              Oh god! Russian is such a beautiful language! I do love Spanish, and do use it fairly often, seeing as how my best friend is Mexican. To be honest, I also find Proto-Indo-European interesting, ESPECIALLY the correlation between black and white. Forgive me in advance if my information is inaccurate, but it seems that black and white came from the same word originally, however, some languages, such as Spanish and French, decided to turn it into the word blanc and blanco respectively, because the original Proto-Indo-European word represented either the white flash of fire (??) while it could also represent the black scorch marks left behind, the latter turning into black with English. Hebrew is a most interesting language, and as a side note, my first word was apparently hallelujah, so I like to say that my first word was a Hebrew one instead of one belonging to my native English lol

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by Poshi View Post
                              Growing up in a home where my mother was a Spanish teacher (although we have no Hispanic heritage), I am fairly decent at understanding Spanish, and I can speak it well enough to be understood, although not always correctly. I've always been fascinated in language, and am considering studying linguistic anthropology in college.
                              I loved learning Spanish in school, and interestingly, 4 of my teachers were not native speakers, although at least two of them were deeply immersed in Hispanic culture, with one living over a decade in Colombia and the other having went to Spain and having had married a Spanish woman. However, my Mexican friend often teases me because he says I talk like a gringo/Spaniard (I love using vosotros and sometimes my pronunciation is more Castilian, I guess, but hey, my last professor was from Cadiz, Spain, so what does he want from me lol). By the way, what kind of Spanish was your mother used to? Was she more of the Castilian variety or did she pick it up from Latin America?

                              Comment

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