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Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

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    Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

    śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ


    #2
    Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

    Unregulated online interaction has a talent for leading to stupidity and bad manners. It's part of why forums give out tyrant hats and banhammers to a select few. Banhammers introduce regulation and consequences. That said, different groups have different character everywhere. You may just have had bad luck in group selection.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #3
      Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

      Honestly, what you're describing sounds pretty typical of online pagan communities in general. This is a reason why I've never joined the Facebook groups; they all seem to have a reputation for being oversensitive and nasty. I think a lot of people have difficulty drawing the line between disagreeing with someone's opinion and hating that person, so they take any differing opinion as an attack.

      It does seem though like you all in the Norse/Germanic paganisms have one of the worst cases, and I don't really know why. All of the Asatruar I've ever met in non-pagan contexts turned out to be really cool, sensible, mature people, but a lot of those I've encountered in the pagan blogsphere were awfully vicious.

      At any rate, I really don't think it's a problem with you.

      Also, this:

      Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post
      What I've seen elsewhere is a cliquishness, a defensiveness and an attitude of "we're not going to help you learn, but you must do it our way". Ironic that they promote orthopraxy but talk orthodoxy.
      . . . Is something I've encountered in my religion, too. (With a few specific people -- no names!) My absolute pet peeve. Like, it's totally understandable to not want to teach a bunch of newbs you don't know just because you happen to be a well-known figure in the community. But if you do that, I think you forfeit your right to be offended by how OMG WRONG!!! they are.

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        #4
        Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

        The internet is the natural habitat of the asshat (I like that name. I'm gonna start using it. thank you), behind the screen is a safe place to spout out poison without being held responsible for it... That's not to say they're everywhere - this is a nice place for example - but don't let the asshats of the internet scare you away from the nice people in real life... You might find some groups that are like that, but I'm sure lots aren't, just use your common sense and your gut feeling when meeting anyone, and you'll be able to avoid the bad ones I think.
        You remind me of the babe
        What babe?
        The babe with the power
        What power?
        The Power of voodoo
        Who do?
        You do!
        Do what?
        Remind me of the babe!

        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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          #5
          Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

          Oh thank Gods I'm glad others see this too!

          Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
          Unregulated online interaction has a talent for leading to stupidity and bad manners. It's part of why forums give out tyrant hats and banhammers to a select few. Banhammers introduce regulation and consequences. That said, different groups have different character everywhere. You may just have had bad luck in group selection.
          I mod at another extremely active religious site, under this same name. We have a zero tolerance police for asshattery, as I know this site does too. It's one of the reasons I like this site. It's small, there's a core group of friendly like-minded people.

          That said, I think you're right about just having a run of bad luck with communities. I have read of people irl having to check out a few kindreds before they found one they clicked with. Knowing it is no less of-putting though. What a shame, and what a sad representation of the religion and culture at large.

          Originally posted by Little Star View Post
          Honestly, what you're describing sounds pretty typical of online pagan communities in general. This is a reason why I've never joined the Facebook groups; they all seem to have a reputation for being oversensitive and nasty. I think a lot of people have difficulty drawing the line between disagreeing with someone's opinion and hating that person, so they take any differing opinion as an attack.

          It does seem though like you all in the Norse/Germanic paganisms have one of the worst cases, and I don't really know why. All of the Asatruar I've ever met in non-pagan contexts turned out to be really cool, sensible, mature people, but a lot of those I've encountered in the pagan blogsphere were awfully vicious.

          At any rate, I really don't think it's a problem with you.
          That's all definitely reassuring.

          Also, this:



          . . . Is something I've encountered in my religion, too. (With a few specific people -- no names!) My absolute pet peeve. Like, it's totally understandable to not want to teach a bunch of newbs you don't know just because you happen to be a well-known figure in the community. But if you do that, I think you forfeit your right to be offended by how OMG WRONG!!! they are.
          It seems to be an air of superiority, knowing and keeping arcane knowledge to themselves. Imo that is so contrary to the Heathen concept of helping others when they need it. Yes, we should stand on our own two feet, but weren't they newbs once?

          Originally posted by iris View Post
          The internet is the natural habitat of the asshat (I like that name. I'm gonna start using it. thank you),
          Any time.

          behind the screen is a safe place to spout out poison without being held responsible for it... That's not to say they're everywhere - this is a nice place for example - but don't let the asshats of the internet scare you away from the nice people in real life... You might find some groups that are like that, but I'm sure lots aren't, just use your common sense and your gut feeling when meeting anyone, and you'll be able to avoid the bad ones I think.
          Yeah, as I said up top, this site is quite calm. It's probably the reason I felt safe ranting and whining about this. I trust the folks here to be honest without being nasty.
          śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
          śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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            #6
            Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

            Well from what I understand from your post is, that those people are either total beginners in Asatru, or amateurs who didn't bother to go deep enough into Asatru.
            Don't be upset over them, man. You're a lot better than them. Just my two cents.
            "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



            Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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              #7
              Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

              Thanks Gleb. I don't know how long they've been practicing either, but they are full of themselves. I told one guy, who doesn't even have a Scandi name, to tell Magnus Samuelsson he's not a Viking... Samuelsson coined the phrase "Viking Power!" Samuelsson is 6'7" and 344 lbs. This guy says he would get in Samuelsson's face and tell him he's not Viking. That takes a real set. I'm still getting notifications of messages they're posting on the page. I reported the whole page to Facebook admin for harassment.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Btw, maybe this should have gone into the Rants section. But I put it here since it was specifically about my practice of Heathenry and Asatru.
              śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
              śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with these online groups. I just started my path very recently and I've also had a bad time with many of the online pagan communities I've encountered (this forum being an exception to that, which is very nice and friendly). It was pretty much exactly as you described; rude, cliquish, with a big superiority complex. I felt very discouraged and disheartened at first, but I've tried to keep my chin up.

                You're definitely not alone in your experience! And you seem really nice and completely non-offensive from your posts on here, so I really don't think there's any problem with you.

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                  #9
                  Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                  Thanks eightofcups, that's really nice of you to say. I'm sorry about your experiences too. I don't know why this happens. Maybe it's because there are not enough experienced Pagans and Heathens around to put these blowhards and four flushers in their place to make them feel inferior. But then again, the more experienced ones probably have more class than that.
                  śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                  śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                    Not to belittle or downplay what your going through but I think it occurs in every online branch of the pagan / occult community. Doesn't matter if it be a Wiccan community, Shamanic community, Stregian community or a Heinz 57 community made up of many branches, they all suffer it from some capacity. As to why it occurs I have my own theories but my theories only explain it to my perspective of things.

                    Nor is it truly like it's something new and unusual that has come about. While more prevalent in some communities, ie the racist skin head community for Odinism for instance, it's been around for some time. Earlier years it was hidden inside witch wars and such, inside who is the truer Wiccan, initiated and lineage versus book taught and self initiated / dedicated and the ever popular notion of blood lineage and percentage. Blood figuring not only in lineage such as Nordic, Germanic, Hellene, etc but also in regards to familial or non-familial and acceptance or membership based upon such.

                    Even the notion or sense of who is the "Experienced" pagan / heathen / occultist / etc and what makes them recognized as such. That all goes back to who is the proper and correct ______ and who bestowed the title, position, confirmation of experience upon them, etc. Consider based upon what you've said your as much a novice or charlatan to them as they appear to be to you based upon your beliefs. Yet who is correct? Are you more correct simply because you claim it to be so? Hardly the grounds for making you the recognized authority and figure head to speak for all of the community. Credibility and credentials are only valid to the authority that awarded them and the community that recognizes them, otherwise it's just words and paper that really mean nothing or mean less than what the holder would have you believe.

                    It's like to me a "Viking" is a cultural name for an individual or group of people. "A viking" is an action and is denoted by the inclusion of the A or similar connection to denote an action is being taken or suggested. Same word yet it's meaning and functions / purpose derived from surrounding words not the word itself. What years ago I think used to be called "To go a vikining" though that usage was never a valid word that I am aware of.

                    Ironically though 10 - 15 years from now if you look at some site you'll probably still see the same discussion and arguments about who is experienced and who is the true ______.
                    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                      #11
                      Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                      Not to belittle or downplay what your going through but I think it occurs in every online branch of the pagan / occult community. Doesn't matter if it be a Wiccan community, Shamanic community, Stregian community or a Heinz 57 community made up of many branches, they all suffer it from some capacity. As to why it occurs I have my own theories but my theories only explain it to my perspective of things.
                      No, I don't take it as downplaying at all. The more people that say this the better it makes me feel... in a twisted sort of way.

                      Nor is it truly like it's something new and unusual that has come about. While more prevalent in some communities, ie the racist skin head community for Odinism for instance, it's been around for some time. Earlier years it was hidden inside witch wars and such, inside who is the truer Wiccan, initiated and lineage versus book taught and self initiated / dedicated and the ever popular notion of blood lineage and percentage. Blood figuring not only in lineage such as Nordic, Germanic, Hellene, etc but also in regards to familial or non-familial and acceptance or membership based upon such.
                      This is real shame, because if there is so much in-fighting in these communities, how are they ever going to get any traction? At one of the two sites they seem to have an intense dislike for Icelanders. I don't understand that either.

                      Even the notion or sense of who is the "Experienced" pagan / heathen / occultist / etc and what makes them recognized as such. That all goes back to who is the proper and correct ______ and who bestowed the title, position, confirmation of experience upon them, etc. Consider based upon what you've said your as much a novice or charlatan to them as they appear to be to you based upon your beliefs.
                      They know what they're talking about as far as lore and practice. My issue with them is the "my way is the only way and you're a total idiot". They have a tendency to dismiss anyone who's new as a "I had a mystical experience with Odin, and he sanctified me" blow hard without even giving the person a chance. I'm sure there are plenty of noobs like that. And their devotion doesn't usually last because it's a passing fad. Just like a lot o westerners who "adopt" Hinduism or Buddhism to sound exotic. I definitely see that exists.

                      Are you more correct simply because you claim it to be so? Hardly the grounds for making you the recognized authority and figure head to speak for all of the community.
                      No, not at all. If I thought that, I'd never ask the questions I do. Maybe it's a negative side effect of not having any kind of central authority, whether scriptural or organizational. For example, Hinduism has the Vedas and Puranas, Buddhism has the Dhammapada and Pali Canon, even though they have many interpretations and give rise to heated debate. But I've never seen Hindus or Buddhists call each other names.

                      It's like to me a "Viking" is a cultural name for an individual or group of people. "A viking" is an action and is denoted by the inclusion of the A or similar connection to denote an action is being taken or suggested. Same word yet it's meaning and functions / purpose derived from surrounding words not the word itself. What years ago I think used to be called "To go a vikining" though that usage was never a valid word that I am aware of.
                      Funny you make that distinction because that's exactly how I used it... Viking with a capital V for the cultural usage. But clearly I was wrong. I just didn't expect to get a new one ripped.

                      Ironically though 10 - 15 years from now if you look at some site you'll probably still see the same discussion and arguments about who is experienced and who is the true ______.
                      Probably. It goes back to "will it ever get any traction with all the in-fighting?"
                      śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                      śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                        #12
                        Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                        Welcome to the internet. :/

                        Seriously, this has nothing to do with Paganism and efverything to do with people. Sure, we see it in the Pagan community & our respective tratraditions, but it exist on parenting forums, christian forums, gaming forums, anywhere where people can be assholes without impunity.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #13
                          Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                          Just have some fun. Go in, tell them you've had a personal gnosis, and discovered that Thor is a pre-carnation of St. Francis.

                          Then watch the fertilizer hit the ventilation device, while you giggle maniacally.

                          You can't fight foolish. But you can poke it with a stick and watch it bark*.





                          * it would be cruel to do this to an animal. They can't help themselves. But people can.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #14
                            Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                            Welcome to the internet. :/

                            Seriously, this has nothing to do with Paganism and efverything to do with people. Sure, we see it in the Pagan community & our respective tratraditions, but it exist on parenting forums, christian forums, gaming forums, anywhere where people can be assholes without impunity.
                            Thanks. I was sort of regretting saying anything, but after all the responses I've gotten saying it's not me, I 'm glad I did say something about it.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                            Just have some fun. Go in, tell them you've had a personal gnosis, and discovered that Thor is a pre-carnation of St. Francis.

                            Then watch the fertilizer hit the ventilation device, while you giggle maniacally.

                            You can't fight foolish. But you can poke it with a stick and watch it bark*.





                            * it would be cruel to do this to an animal. They can't help themselves. But people can.
                            I like the way you think. After all, they did call me a troll. But no, I won't be going back to the buffet for seconds.
                            śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                            śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                              #15
                              Re: Running into quite a few on-line Heathens who are quite immature and nasty

                              In the real-time everyday world, it also happens on allotments. A lot.
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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