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    I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

    I am Heathen: , "I am Thor's man", he is my fulltrui. I venerate the ancestors, I worship the Gods, I toast them all, I am proud to be Heathen. I've wrestled with my relationship with the Hindu deities after I stopped practicing Hinduism and calling myself Hindu. The reason I "left" Hinduism and Hindu practice is because I no longer held with the theology, reasons for some of the rituals, all the do's and don'ts I was encountering from all those internet pundits (see the thread about the self-important Heathens). I have my own upg of practicing Hinduism and Heathenism, and worshiping the Gods, no matter what anyone else says... you feel what you feel. My new favorite diagnosis of all these people, Hindu and Heathen alike is the Dunning-Kruger effect. In short, their own overblown overcompensation for what they really don't know. But I am sort of digressing.

    Very lately I am feeling a calling by the Hindu deities and a sort of distance from the Aesir and Vanir. People say the Gods have much more to do than micro-manage our daily affairs, and I can accept that. I'm finding myself wanting to set up a Hindu shrine and display their images again along with the Aesir and Vanir.

    I'm still not entirely on-board with Hindu theology: the idea that all things emanate from one ground of being, i.e. Brahman, and that Brahman manifests as any one deity (Shiva for Shaivas; Krishna for Vaishnavas; Devi (the Goddess) for Shaktas. Or the Hindu concepts of an afterlife, though I believe karma is very much akin to wyrd and orlog. I've become a semi-hard polytheist and see all the Gods as individual entities, though many of the Gods may be attributes of a main deity. For example, the handmaidens of Frigga may be Frigga herself in different roles. Hinduism flat out states that Durga, Kali, Uma, Sati are aspects of Parvati (Devi), Shiva's wife. Rama, Krishna, Narasimha are aspects (avatars) of Vishnu, and so on.

    I am very much drawn to Shiva and Parvati (the Divine Mother and her aspects as Durga and Kali), Lakshmi, Hanuman, Saraswati; less so to Ganesha, Krishna and Rama though I have always venerated them. I have no issue with reciting their prayers (slokas) and mantras. In fact, I sort of miss the Sanskrit prayers, and strangely I miss going to the temple I used to go to. I am still not on-board with performing the rituals most Hindus perform: daily pujas, which can be very involved, and nama japa. I just never derived anything from the repeated chanting of a deity's mantra, e.g. om sri krishnāya namaha (I bow to/salute/hail Lord Krishna). I'd rather offer water, a candle, incense, a flower, a sweet, etc. with a few prayers and call it a day.

    Is it possible that the Gods of both pantheons are saying that it's cool to turn to both for filling my spiritual life?
    śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ


    #2
    Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

    Of course, I can't speak in the name of any deity and in my opinion it's totally ok to worship deities from different pantheons. For instance, I still have my eye on Hodur from the Heathen pantheon. And I am drawn to the Kemetic pantheon for more than 90% of my soul. I know it's a very specific case, but the Netjeru, at least the ones I feel closer to- lord Djehuty and Lady Bast, seem to be fine with that.

    So yes, I think it's possible that the deities of both pantheons are fine with it.
    These are my own two cents. I hope that helped.
    Last edited by Gleb; 20 May 2015, 08:47. Reason: Accuracy.
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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      #3
      śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
      śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

      Comment


        #4
        Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

        I have two words for you: Proper Context

        Proper Context is highly personal--one might see "proper context" as derived by the historically accurate portrayal of worship in a specific culture, or as relating to the culture the deity hails from without the emphasis on historical authenticity, or on the basis of the deity being representative of something valued...for me, context is centered around a deity's identity and purpose.

        As long as you do your thing in your proper context (and that takes time to discover), don't sweat it. Do what works for you, its your path.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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          #5
          Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

          Thanks thalassa, here goes (oh noes! not again! ).

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          I have two words for you: Proper Context

          Proper Context is highly personal-- ...for me, context is centered around a deity's identity and purpose.
          I think that's the epiphany I've had. I'm sorry to say it (no I'm not )... one doesn't have to accept a tradition lock, stock and barrel. Cherry-picking? Damn skippy. I believe the deities are real beings, but not in an anthropomorphic sense... Thorr is not a big burly muscled red haired guy; Durga is not a 10-armed woman riding a tiger, holding a different weapon in each hand. These are just aids for us to envision the deities, something even Krishna sanctioned in the Bhagavad Gita (12.5).

          As long as you do your thing in your proper context (and that takes time to discover), don't sweat it. Do what works for you, its your path.
          I see this now. This is the beauty of Pagan and Heathen paths. As longs as we don't deliberately disrespect the Gods we should be good to go. Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita (9.26) "If one offers me with love and devotion, a leaf, flower fruit or water, I will accept it". That can probably said of very many deities, though I'm sure there are some deities who are very demanding. But like you said, it's all within our own contexts and paths.
          śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
          śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

          Comment


            #6
            Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

            Well, as for the meat - perhaps you can find a diet the fits both pantheons. I'm not saying you should/must do this.. But it's just a possibility of easing the whole process.
            "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



            Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

            Comment


              #7
              Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

              Originally posted by Gleb View Post
              Well, as for the meat - perhaps you can find a diet the fits both pantheons. I'm not saying you should/must do this.. But it's just a possibility of easing the whole process.
              I have no problem with myself eating meat, I just won't offer meat or alcohol to the Hindu Gods. That's why I would never enshrine the two pantheons together. It's not required to offer the Aesir and Vanir meat or alcohol, but they sure do love their mead and ale.

              These are typical offerings to the Hindu deities in home worship. "Samarpayāmi" (ā = aah sound) means "I offer" or "I am offering". I prefer the Sanskrit. Old habits die hard.

              oṁ nāmaskāram samarpayāmi [greetings]
              oṁ dhyānam samarpayāmi [thought]
              oṁ āvāhanam samarpayāmi [invitation]
              oṁ dhūpam samarpayāmi [incense]
              oṁ dīpam samarpayāmi [light]
              oṁ āchamanīyam samarpayāmi [water]
              oṁ prārthanam samarpayāmi [prayers]

              (if you don't have these handy, you can eliminate this part):
              oṁ pushpam samarpayāmi [flower]
              oṁ phalam samarpayāmi [fruit]
              oṁ naivedyam samarpayāmi [food, should be vegetarian]

              Then there are some other prayers. There are other offerings which go back to the point I was addressing earlier about too much ritual. People will wash and dress their statues, sometimes in a fairly elaborate manner.

              Hmm... so when it comes right down to it, this isn't too much different than a Heathen home ritual and toast but when in Rome...

              Btw, I put all that in there mostly because:
              1. I have ocpd.
              2. I'm pedantic.
              3. It shows that worship is worship.
              śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
              śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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                #8
                Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post
                I have no problem with myself eating meat, I just won't offer meat or alcohol to the Hindu Gods. That's why I would never enshrine the two pantheons together. It's not required to offer the Aesir and Vanir meat or alcohol, but they sure do love their mead and ale.

                These are typical offerings to the Hindu deities in home worship. "Samarpayāmi" (ā = aah sound) means "I offer" or "I am offering". I prefer the Sanskrit. Old habits die hard.

                oṁ nāmaskāram samarpayāmi [greetings]
                oṁ dhyānam samarpayāmi [thought]
                oṁ āvāhanam samarpayāmi [invitation]
                oṁ dhūpam samarpayāmi [incense]
                oṁ dīpam samarpayāmi [light]
                oṁ āchamanīyam samarpayāmi [water]
                oṁ prārthanam samarpayāmi [prayers]

                (if you don't have these handy, you can eliminate this part):
                oṁ pushpam samarpayāmi [flower]
                oṁ phalam samarpayāmi [fruit]
                oṁ naivedyam samarpayāmi [food, should be vegetarian]

                Then there are some other prayers. There are other offerings which go back to the point I was addressing earlier about too much ritual. People will wash and dress their statues, sometimes in a fairly elaborate manner.
                Oohhh, now I see. Thanks for sharing!
                Well... luckily when all the complications I wrote about in another thread are over, I'll have my own shrine too. I'll have to separate the 2 shrines. One Kemetic - for Djehuty, Bast, Ra, Ausar and Seshat and a Heathen shrine for Hodur. Though it makes me think it's a bit unfair towards Hodur, since he's pretty alone there...
                "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                  I wouldn't worry about have a one-deity shrine. I think that's probably the norm. When it comes down to it my Asatru shrine is dedicated to Thor. I have other representations too: keys for Frigga, cat ornament for Freyja, piece of deer antler for Freyr, seax for Tyr, framed image of Odin, but by-and-large the shrine is dedicated to Thor.
                  śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                  śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                    Cool. Thanks!
                    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                      In historical learnings I have read that the Brahman monotheistic concept came about much later and that the original vedic religion promoted each deity as a seperate being. Also linguistically there is a reason its called Indo-European the Hindu or Vedic gods correspond to the Norse and other pantheons. Indra is Thor basically etc . How far you want to seperate them is up to you if you want shrines to both pantheons I say knock yourself out.

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                        #12
                        Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                        I believe you are right. The concept of Brahman comes in the Upanishads, Vedanta: literally "the end of the Vedas". I'd like to find a proper place for the little Hindu shrine. Ideally it should face east or west but I'll have to make do with space I have in the house. A 24x18" shelf is all I really need. My Heathen shrine takes up a corner of the dining room.
                        śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                        śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                          My short answer is...

                          Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post
                          Is it possible that the Gods of both pantheons are saying that it's cool to turn to both for filling my spiritual life?
                          Yes.

                          And this...

                          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                          I have two words for you: Proper Context

                          Proper Context is highly personal--one might see "proper context" as derived by the historically accurate portrayal of worship in a specific culture, or as relating to the culture the deity hails from without the emphasis on historical authenticity, or on the basis of the deity being representative of something valued...for me, context is centered around a deity's identity and purpose.

                          As long as you do your thing in your proper context (and that takes time to discover), don't sweat it. Do what works for you, its your path.
                          The long answer is that there are no hard and fast rules that you MUST embrace the entire religion in order to honor the gods. I honor gods outside of the Northern pantheons... I'm fairly vocal about considering myself both NT and a Demonolator, but I also honor Ereshkigal from the Sumerian pantheon. So obviously, I'm okay with this concept, even though I really, really dislike disrespectful appropriation and shallow cherry picking. Personally I think that many deities are okay with the concept too. My UPG tells me that deities gain their ability to interface with this world via their human followers... that's a large part of what they get out of their relationship with us. I think there are many deities who are okay with being worshipped and/or honored outside of their associated religion, simply because there's something in it for them. And I don't think that this is a purely modern phenomenon.

                          I think there are two key things to doing this the 'right' way (if there is such a thing as a 'right' way)... proper context (as Thalassa pointed out) and respectful assimilation. There's a big difference between blithe appropriation (what most of us really mean when we talk about 'cherry picking') and a respectful assimilation of aspects of another practice.

                          I call myself both a NTer and a Demonolator for simplicity's sake, but technically I am a Northern Tradition practitioner who works regularly with Demons and cthonic deities who are outside of the Northern pantheons. The only reason I use both terms is because I was an accepted member of the online Demonolatry community for many years, despite the fact that I didn't practice exactly as they did and was fairly open about that (also, Demonolatry is like Paganism... there is no single accepted set of rules and practices). I honor Ereshkigal, but I have never (and will never) claim to be practicing anything of a Sumerian nature... because the only thing that I have in common with Sumerian practice is a single deity and some study of the mythology. I don't think you (Thorbjorn) can ever claim to be Hindu again... because you aren't practicing the Hindu religion (and Hinduism is a religion that has a [or several] clear set of rules and practices). But that doesn't preclude you from worshipping Hindu deities in whatever manner they prefer. Because from what I've seen of you discussing this over the months, you are doing so from a place of proper context and respectful assimilation, rather than cherry picking and cultural appropriation. I don't see anything wrong with that, and to me it seems like your deities are in agreement.

                          Having said all that... remember to check with BOTH sets of deities. Soft polytheists are far less concerned about this, but as a hard polytheist I think it's important to remember that just because the Hindu deities are happy to be worshipped as a secondary set of deities, doesn't mean that the Northern deities are happy with sharing their worshipper. From my experience it's likely that they WILL be happy with sharing, but then I work with a slightly different set of Northern deities than you do. So check in with them as well before you make your final decision. And don't assume that you can do it behind their backs, because unless there's something specific they like about you, they're likely to take their patronage elsewhere.

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                            #14
                            Re: I don't know what to make of this: Hinduism calling again?

                            Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                            My UPG tells me that deities gain their ability to interface with this world via their human followers... that's a large part of what they get out of their relationship with us. I think there are many deities who are okay with being worshipped and/or honored outside of their associated religion, simply because there's something in it for them. And I don't think that this is a purely modern phenomenon.
                            The more mystical aspects of Hinduism say that the deities are attracted to this world by the flames, incense, bells, and such. They will come and go.

                            I think there are two key things to doing this the 'right' way (if there is such a thing as a 'right' way)... proper context (as Thalassa pointed out) and respectful assimilation. There's a big difference between blithe appropriation (what most of us really mean when we talk about 'cherry picking') and a respectful assimilation of aspects of another practice.
                            That is very true. It's not cool, imo, to keep a Ganesha on the dashboard, which I do, because he brings "good luck", which is not why I do. He is a deity who removes obstacles, grants wisdom (which can often remove obstacles) and is the liaison between us and the other devas. He's most connected and partial to this world.

                            Even though I don't have a proper Hindu shrine set up again, I try to be as respectful of the statues as I can. I don't like where I have them right now because:
                            1. There are books behind them. If I want a book, I have to move the statues.
                            2. They are in front of my recliner, which makes my feet point towards them. I try to angle my feet away.


                            I don't think you (Thorbjorn) can ever claim to be Hindu again... because you aren't practicing the Hindu religion (and Hinduism is a religion that has a [or several] clear set of rules and practices). But that doesn't preclude you from worshipping Hindu deities in whatever manner they prefer. Because from what I've seen of you discussing this over the months, you are doing so from a place of proper context and respectful assimilation, rather than cherry picking and cultural appropriation. I don't see anything wrong with that, and to me it seems like your deities are in agreement.
                            You are very right in that. I can't and won't call myself Hindu for more than just the religious practices. As much as we may try to deny it, Hinduism is inextricably linked with Indian ethnicity and culture. Being a white westerner I really am not in favor of adopting Indian ways, though I am extremely fond of Indian culture. I'd no more go about in Indian clothing than I would in Norse clothing. Even though I do have a tiny bit of Norman and Scandi ancestry, it would not be cool, again imo, to appropriate Norse culture. I think it's quite another matter, however, to worship the deities. After all, Irish, Italian, Russian, American Christians have no problem with worshiping an orthodox Jew. Not the best example, maybe, but ...

                            Having said all that... remember to check with BOTH sets of deities. Soft polytheists are far less concerned about this, but as a hard polytheist I think it's important to remember that just because the Hindu deities are happy to be worshipped as a secondary set of deities, doesn't mean that the Northern deities are happy with sharing their worshipper. From my experience it's likely that they WILL be happy with sharing, but then I work with a slightly different set of Northern deities than you do. So check in with them as well before you make your final decision. And don't assume that you can do it behind their backs, because unless there's something specific they like about you, they're likely to take their patronage elsewhere.
                            I've become much firmer in my polytheism than I was when I practiced Hinduism, so I see them as individuals. I think I have their permission and blessings. For example, when I put the small statue of Ganesha back on my dashboard, having removed it thinking it showed a lack of faith in Thor, I got a good feeling. I have a small Mjollnir and a bind rune I burned hanging from my mirror. I do not feel a conflict there. In fact, I think the protection is doubled: I just spent $1100 on my truck, a 2004 Chevy Silverado I will not part with, for two front bearings and a cv shaft. About 10 miles into my 30 mile ride home the other night I heard the most want-to-make-you-throw-up grinding and growling noise. I made it home, got the truck to the shop, and got it fixed. Good luck? I think not. The bearings and shaft went with no warning... and I keep the truck in tip-top shape. Had the wheels seized... I believe both gods, or several, were riding with me, not to mention having given me a way to cough up $1100! I must make some kind of offering... to a charity and/or to the landvaettir, ancestors and gods. I know what I can do for the charity but I'm not sure what kind of offering to the landvaettir, ancestors and gods other than food and drink, more than I usually do. I think I will cook for them this weekend, and give some incense, flowers, light, and a small puja to the Hindu deities.

                            Anyway, when I think that maybe the Norse gods are giving me my walking papers and that I should return to Hindu practice I feel that is not correct. When I think about it, it further strengthens my feeling that all the gods "got my back". I realize that the gods, of almost any pantheon are not omniscient nor omnipotent, and probably have a lot to do. Thor is happy-go-lucky when he's not bashing giants; Freyja, Frigga, and the other goddesses are very gentle and easy-going; Freyr himself is very chill and laid back; and so on. And whereas I thought it was Thor who was helping me in the gym, I really think it's Hanuman. Thor is inspiring me, but Hanuman is helping. So for now, I think it's going OK.
                            śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
                            śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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