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    Appearance of Divine?

    I've been doing some study about Demonology, and I have a few question about it. How does the Divine appear to people? How do you know if it's the Divine? How do you tell which demon is calling you? Thank you.

    #2
    Re: Appearance of Divine?

    Originally posted by LearningMan View Post
    How does the Divine appear to people?
    I'm not entirely sure if you are asking about the manner in which They appear "visually" or how a practitioner may go about "seeing" Them. I will address both possibilities.

    Visual Appearance

    In my experience, there are two conclusions to which I have arrived in regards to the "visual" appearance of Demons. 1.) Some Demons assume diverse theophanies and may appear differently from one experience to another. 2.) Some Demons assume the same or a very similar theophany within each experience.

    Amongst Demonolators, there can be numerous experiences with the same entity while descriptions of Its appearance can vary wildly. Other Demons tend to appear identically or nearly-identically to each individual.

    I would use the Goetic entities as an example. It is my experience that a large number of Them do not appear to resemble Their historical descriptions as found in the Lemegeton. However, certain entities such as Glasya-Labolas and Haagenti have consistently appeared to me in a similar theophany as found within the Lemegeton.

    To describe the Demons with whom I have worked "visually", I would have to speak about each individual as there is no generic "form" which a Demon assumes - contrary to popular belief in that Demons always appear as horrific monsters, some may seem quite fair while others may seem terrifying. I have experienced Demons assuming the ordinary forms of young boys, middle-aged men and women and everyday animals; but, I have also experienced Demons assuming the forms of bizarre clouds, stones, monsters and mere feelings and sounds.

    The Act of Appearing

    Demons, like any Otherworldly entity such as a god or wight, can appear to an individual in a number of ways. Most experiences of the Divine, be it a Demon or not, tend to involve the Spiritiual sight as opposed to the physical organ of sight. Spirits may appear in dreams, meditations, Shamanic journeys or They may rarely physically manifest either in a perceptible energetic form or in the guise of an animal or a person.

    Originally posted by LearningMan View Post
    How do you know if it's the Divine?
    To be rather blunt, you won't know initially. This is where experience with the practice of discernment comes into play. In the beginning, it is difficult to differentiate between actual impressions of the Divine and mental imaginings influenced by a desire to experience the real thing.

    Originally posted by LearningMan View Post
    How do you tell which demon is calling you? Thank you.
    Again, experience will be key. The first step is discerning whether or not your experience is authentic. In my experience, it is usually very clear which Demon is communicating with you. They do not contact people unless there is a specific purpose which validates doing so and, even in such a case, They often employ emissaries to convey messages. For all of my dealings with Them, I can count perhaps only a dozen incidences in which a Demon has contacted me without my having initiated the communication or without an ongoing transaction.

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      #3
      Re: Appearance of Divine?

      Thank you. Is it possible to ask the Divine for a sign, or do you have to seek it out yourself? I've thought about asking before going to sleep and seeing if they are in my dreams, but I get the feeling it isn't quite that simple.

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        #4
        Re: Appearance of Divine?

        Originally posted by LearningMan View Post
        Thank you. Is it possible to ask the Divine for a sign, or do you have to seek it out yourself? I've thought about asking before going to sleep and seeing if they are in my dreams, but I get the feeling it isn't quite that simple.
        It can be. It all depends on what you're seeking. I would recommend always approaching a Demon with a clear purpose before simply seeking Them out. You are less likely to to be responded to if you are simply contacting Them with nothing interesting to say or to offer.

        Various techniques for establishing contact exist, but I would suggest you stick with what you know.

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          #5
          Re: Appearance of Divine?

          Thank you. Earlier yesterday I saw a black racer on the road. When I walked down the sidewalk, it slithered towards the sidewalk I was on and into the bushes. I'm not sure if that is a sign or just a coincidence. Sorry if it seems silly.

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            #6
            Re: Appearance of Divine?

            Originally posted by LearningMan View Post
            Thank you. Earlier yesterday I saw a black racer on the road. When I walked down the sidewalk, it slithered towards the sidewalk I was on and into the bushes. I'm not sure if that is a sign or just a coincidence. Sorry if it seems silly.
            It's not silly. It has to do with your relationship to the world.

            "Meaning" is not an inherent quality of things themselves. Meaning is a quality which comes from the interaction between thoughts/feelings and things. In other words, "meaning" is not objective - it is subjective. We think and/or feel meaning when we interact with things.

            Example: A white stone standing upright in a green field is just a white stone standing upright in a green field - clumps of matter existing. It means nothing... until a conscious entity sees it or thinks about it, or touches it. The same is true of national flags and cattle farts. They are just clumps of matter until a conscious entity thinks/feels about them.

            So the answer to your question is (and this is, I think, the only honest way to answer your question, unless I want try to convince you that I have some special knowledge that you don't) "what do you think/feel?"
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #7
              Re: Appearance of Divine?

              Thank you. Perhaps the snake could be a sign from Yam, Asherah, Leviathan, or some other deity I may not have heard of.

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                #8
                Re: Appearance of Divine?

                I'd add that snake is also representative of death and rebirth into a new skin. Shedding ones old life for a new life. It's also a visual reference to the land of shadow and death or the chthonic realms that lay within the earth. So for symbology you have to look at more than just which god / goddess spring to mind but also the psychological and cultural imagery it suggests or implies.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                  #9
                  Re: Appearance of Divine?

                  Thank you. Maybe the snake is hinting at a possible spiritual rebirth for me.

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                    #10
                    Re: Appearance of Divine?

                    I just remembered something. At first I thought it didn't matter, but it may have a deeper meaning. Last week, I saw a newborn hairless rat on the grass next to the sidewalk. A few days later, I saw the corpse of a hairy dead adult rat. I am unsure as to what cultural, psychological, or religious significance these events could have (I never saw a rat in my life before then), but I felt it would be helpful to post this here.

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                      #11
                      Re: Appearance of Divine?

                      The thing about signs, to me anyway, is that the sign has to mean something to the observer and instill some meaning in them. So what I take as a sign of my gods / goddesses, spirit allies, etc are things that to anyone else might seem normal but something about them to me makes them stand out and is different. I think that far to often we see things and force them to fit some idea or confirmation we are seeking vice simply seeing it as something natural.

                      Consider for instance I used to drive along a river every day, year in and year out. On any given day I wold see anywhere from 5 - 8 Blue Heron's and 1 - 3 White Egret's spread along the river. Yet on one particular day I noticed a Blue Heron then a White Egret, then another Blue Heron and another White Egret then yet another Blue Heron and another White Egret. It was so out of the norm that you couldn't but help noticing it. You had to notice the pattern it created, the location it was observed and even the time of day it was observed. Since the Blue Heron is a Spirit / Power Animal in my beliefs the very strangeness of it all made me look and consider it as a message of some sort to be reflected upon and perhaps acted upon.

                      So the fact you saw a snake, a dead rat, a baby rat may or may not indicate anything. Yet if it causes you to contemplate something, pause and ponder it or inspire you to something then perhaps it was a sign of something but only you can say for certain. Sadly signs are like dream analysis many times, only the one seeing it or dreaming it can say just what the imagery and symbology means to them.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                        #12
                        Re: Appearance of Divine?

                        Thank you. I didn't think anything of the rats, but the snake did remind me of two things: A. Leviathan and B. Someone from my past who I didn't get along with too well

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                          #13
                          Re: Appearance of Divine?

                          I'm not sure what I did, but I may have made the Divine angry. At 11:00 last night, I prayed to them: "Dear Divine, please give me a sign so that I may worship you. The sign can be anything you wish, as long as it doesn't harm anyone." I wake up at 2:00 the next morning and shortly after vomit. I then discovered that my brother had the same illness, except his was more severe. I vomited stomach acid and had diarrhea for several hours. Now that I've taken a rest, I feel better, but I have to suck on crushed ice instead of drinking water. Did I do something wrong? Did I offend them?

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                            #14
                            Re: Appearance of Divine?

                            Look. I've been patient. You cannot call up the divine as if they are in the yellow pages. Stop demanding something from them. Start learning. There is no easy way out.
                            Satan is my spirit animal

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                              #15
                              Re: Appearance of Divine?

                              I'm sorry. I didn't know I was frustrating you. I'll try not to do that anymore.

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