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  • Initiation Question

    I've recently gotten back onto my path in Wicca and am fully committed to being initiated to the practice. That being said, I live in a very christian, republican state and have yet to find a coven. I plan on being a solitary practitioner for a while so that I can come into my own in regards to my deities and spell work, etc. My question would be do I necessarily have to be initiated into Wicca by a coven or can I do my own ritual to become a full fledged wiccan?

    Also, I've just started reading Coming to the Edge of the Circle, which is a book about initiation into Wicca, I'm just curious as to the experience around the forum and to any opinions or advice you all could give.

    Thanks
    (user formerly known as beckly_freckly)

    You are a little soul carrying around a corpse.

  • #2
    Re: Initiation Question

    Originally posted by beckly_freckly View Post
    I've recently gotten back onto my path in Wicca and am fully committed to being initiated to the practice. That being said, I live in a very christian, republican state and have yet to find a coven. I plan on being a solitary practitioner for a while so that I can come into my own in regards to my deities and spell work, etc. My question would be do I necessarily have to be initiated into Wicca by a coven or can I do my own ritual to become a full fledged wiccan?

    Also, I've just started reading Coming to the Edge of the Circle, which is a book about initiation into Wicca, I'm just curious as to the experience around the forum and to any opinions or advice you all could give.

    Thanks
    The answer to this depends on the tradition of Wicca. Some won't acknowledge you unless you're initiated by a lineaged coven. Others acknowledge self-initiation. Have a tradition in mind?
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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    • #3
      Re: Initiation Question

      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
      The answer to this depends on the tradition of Wicca. Some won't acknowledge you unless you're initiated by a lineaged coven. Others acknowledge self-initiation. Have a tradition in mind?
      Definitely agree with this. I know many recognize self dedication to a practice but only neo's really accept self initiation into a practice that I know of. Haven't really met a traditional or lineage'd Wiccan that accepts or acknowledges it. Seen a few suggestions of a hived and independent practitioner being recognized by a lineage'd group but that was rather few and far between from what I've seen.
      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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      • #4
        Re: Initiation Question

        I identify more with Celtic and Norse mythology and those gods and goddesses speak to me far more than any others. I guess that would make me eclectic or Seax?
        (user formerly known as beckly_freckly)

        You are a little soul carrying around a corpse.

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        • #5
          Re: Initiation Question

          You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
          You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/
          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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          • #6
            Re: Initiation Question

            You can be Wiccan without being initiated*, but you won't be recognized certain types of Wiccan (Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Blue Star, Georgian, etc) without being initiated. And, if you want to go into a lineaged tradition, they likely won't recognize your self-study and practice as applicable to their tradition. Part of the process pre-initiation is a matter of testing comittment and fit. Not everyone is *right* for the group and not every group is *right* for the person...



            *TBH, anyone that at this point refuses to acknowledge self-dedicated solo practitioners of Wicca is just a troglodyte. While (IMO) its perfectly fair to be (hopefully constructively) critical of some solitary practices as being "Wiccan", a blanket statement of "there's no such thing..." is just moronic because people have been doing un-covened, non-traditional Wicca for at least 40-50 years now.
            “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

            “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
            ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

            "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
            ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

            "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

            Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Initiation Question

              Thank you
              (user formerly known as beckly_freckly)

              You are a little soul carrying around a corpse.

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              • #8
                Re: Initiation Question

                I thought I'd pipe in because I have been going over my past books of shadows and recalling details about my path so far that I had forgotten. To me, my most important initiations were those I did myself. So much so, that having gone over the books, I am planning on conducting another to mark the most recent changes and my starting out on a new leg of my spiritual experience. My first self-initiation (or dedication, as some would prefer to call it), wasn't until I turned 18 in 2000, which was 4 years after I first discovered paganism and witchcraft. I had actually been 'initiated' into a teen coven before this point, which of course didn't last beyond high school (this teen coven btw, is how I always know when I started my path; the founding members had seen the movie 'the Craft' in the cinema, which came out in 1996 ^^).

                I then took a second self-initiation in 2005, 10 years ago almost exactly! I was initiated into 2 other covens (neither of which were lineaged, although one allegedly had the input of a gardnerian HPS who critiqued and advised on the core liturgy. I say 'alleged' because I never met said HPS or even knew her name, and simply corresponded with her via a solitary wiccan from over the river who called himself 'Earthlore'*), as well as being initiated into the Fellowship of Isis, but these initiations always felt simply to be initiations into the group. In fact, my first and for me most significant, proper coven had a rule in which we weren't to discuss our degree or position within to coven to anyone outside of the coven, because such ranks were meaningless to anyone outside. Some traditions race you through to third in a few years, while others require much more stringent training and experience to be accumulated before members can move on, so that that two second degree witches from two separate covens (even within the same tradition in some cases), can be quite different in terms of knowledge, experience and spiritual development. Initiation into and within groups were meaningful and nice, but never felt as spiritually significant or intimate as the two initiations I carried out in private.

                Sorry for the odd detail about my wiccan days, but reading through my BoS has thrown back loads of things I'd just totally forgotten, and helped me to reconnect with an earlier part of myself. It's been a really nice experience.

                *Incidentally, if this person sounds familiar to anyone.. if indeed you're reading this yourself, I'd really love to get back in touch.

                Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
                You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/
                I'm going to start listening to your podcasts while I'm at work! It will be a pleasant break from the constant chirping of Japanese I listen to. You've got such a nice soothing voice.
                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                • #9
                  Re: Initiation Question

                  You can identify as a Wiccan when you truly feel committed and that this is the religion for you. When I started, I actually initiated after only 2 months since discovering Wicca. I don't recommend this because I'm self-aware so I knew at that point that I didn't want to be Christian anymore, that I wanted something different and the separating from Christianity had occurred a god year before I stumbled upon Wicca. It was just a matter of, who do I wanna be. Wicca just clicked. It just felt right. To me, it was like coming home to your mom after a long sleep-away camp. It was like it was always there, I just couldn't find it. At the time, I was 16, and I actually joined the forum a year or so later, and here I am! 19 and still on my path.

                  That's just how I did it. Now, you can be coven initiated if you like, but it isn't required. It's not like just because they're a coven, means they are more truly Wiccan then a self-initiated Solitary. A lot of people will do a Year and a Day of learning, researching, and practicing the faith before they identify because that Year is kind of like a trial period to really learn what it's all about and to make sure it's the right path for you.

                  I hope my reply helped!

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                  You might enjoy this interview I did with a lineaged HP, Tam Campbell
                  You can find it here: http://tylluanpenry.podbean.com/e/in...-tam-campbell/
                  May I just say, your voice is soothing!
                  A Happy Little Wiccan

                  Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                  Because who needs a life when you have a chatroom.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Initiation Question

                    Very interesting. The more I find out the more I understand how superficial my knowledge really is.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Initiation Question

                      Originally posted by gelman66 View Post
                      Very interesting. The more I find out the more I understand how superficial my knowledge really is.
                      Understand I am not Wiccan so my perspective is jaded to a degree. Regarding knowledge I've always assumed about 50 percent of Wicca is revealed and structured in both knowledge, format and to a degree expectation. That also means about 50 percent is also mystical or enlightened knowledge that may or may not ever be provable based upon mundane resources. Perhaps moving into the category of Shared Personal Gnosis (SPG) in that the mystical experience may be close enough that the base elements can be recognized in the experiences of others. Yet they can never be exactly the same so at the same time form a very deep core of Unverifiable / Un-provable Personal Gnosis (UPG) which each practitioner will build their beliefs upon.

                      So most of your knowledge that will be used to discuss, in my opinion, will always be the 50 percent that is structured and verifiable. Yet the issue there is that many of those truths will also hinge upon which group you align to and with. So saying ones knowledge is superficial is really not a truth outside of ones own desire to be accepted by or within a certain grouping. It also tends to remove or play down your own personal interests and idea's which greatly color both your UPG and SPG which may or may not align with how the outside group acknowledges or understands the given material.

                      So don't sell your knowledge, desire or intent short because it doesn't neatly align with some other groups layout of what they think things should be like.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Initiation Question

                        This is probably the best explanation of the degree system in Wicca (her blog is quire good in that regard) that I have come across online (this is very close to the tradition I was initiated in), though its also been related to Jung--first degree being the shadow Self, second being the anima/animus, and third being the entire Self (and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive).
                        “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

                        “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
                        ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

                        "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
                        ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

                        "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

                        Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Initiation Question

                          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                          This is probably the best explanation of the degree system in Wicca (her blog is quire good in that regard) that I have come across online (this is very close to the tradition I was initiated in), though its also been related to Jung--first degree being the shadow Self, second being the anima/animus, and third being the entire Self (and I don't think the two are mutually exclusive).
                          I recall when I first started looking into Wicca that there were three degree levels. Yet each level might have various steps one had to complete before they were deemed as having completed the degree. Then it seemed I came across some that had upwards of five levels but also included Mother, Maiden, Crone, Warrior and want to say girl as the prepubescent that differed from Maiden. Then it seemed the more neo it became the more variants of what each level meant and hoped to achieve seemed to change.

                          The shadow, the anima / animus and then the total self pretty much matches what I though and was exposed to.
                          I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                          • #14
                            Re: Initiation Question

                            Thank you all!
                            My path has had some bumps recently and I'm just now coming back to the forum and reading through the thread has really helped me.
                            (user formerly known as beckly_freckly)

                            You are a little soul carrying around a corpse.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Initiation Question

                              Mrs. P ... just listened to your Tam Campbell interview ... BRILLIANT ...
                              I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                              Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                              The Chief nodded in agreement.

                              The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                              The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                              Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



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