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Are Germanic deities distant?

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    #31
    Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

    There's the old saying "God helps those who help themselves".
    śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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      #32
      Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

      Originally posted by Thorbjorn View Post
      There's the old saying "God helps those who help themselves".
      I have heard this term floating around quite a bit within the Heathen community. I'm actually surprised that the Hindu deities are the same way, I actually always thought that they were quite 'interfering' with their devotees. I may have the perception due to the number of people over the years I know who honor them and having said to me that Lakshmi helped with this, Ganesh helped with with that etc.

      Are there any gods or pantheons that do micromanage?

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        #33
        Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

        Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
        I have heard this term floating around quite a bit within the Heathen community. I'm actually surprised that the Hindu deities are the same way, I actually always thought that they were quite 'interfering' with their devotees. I may have the perception due to the number of people over the years I know who honor them and having said to me that Lakshmi helped with this, Ganesh helped with with that etc.

        Are there any gods or pantheons that do micromanage?
        Bolded mine.

        I think if you look at myth and such then no with the exception of the hero's mythology. Yet even then they didn't really micromanage as much as show a divine connection between the hero and some god / goddess.

        Within modern neo-paganism though I think there is a lot of micromanaging though that is seen more as familial in purpose or usage. When you consider that just about every pagan, though not specifically heathens, you see seem to claim some one on one motherly, fatherly, sisterly or brotherly relationship to their god or goddess. The devotee can claim independence and freedom yet if they call upon or ask the god / goddess for everything and his / her interference then you have, in my opinion, self induced micromanaging. If they get what was asked for then the god / goddess was helpful, if not then they can blame the god / goddess as claim no culpability for themselves.

        Outside of the hero stories you don't even really see a personal relationship between a devotee and a divinity figure. Yet it seems all you read about is this one on one relationship between devotee and divinity. Not only one on one but some sort of special purpose the god / goddess seems to have chosen them for.

        So no I do not think there are any archaic pantheons with gods / goddesses / semi-divine beings that micromanage. Yet modern usages have created a lot of them thought the practitioner / devotee does not identify it as micromanaging. Just like the supposed micromanaged practice of doing nothing before they do a divination then many times only seeing what they want to see anyway.

        Of course this is all my own opinion and conclusions so other's may see it differently.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #34
          Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

          Originally posted by Ahvoo View Post
          I have heard this term floating around quite a bit within the Heathen community. I'm actually surprised that the Hindu deities are the same way, I actually always thought that they were quite 'interfering' with their devotees. I may have the perception due to the number of people over the years I know who honor them and having said to me that Lakshmi helped with this, Ganesh helped with with that etc.
          They will indeed help, as I have found out. I don't know which god(dess) it was, but too many times help came from the unlikeliest places at the unlikeliest times, when no help should have come at all. But if you read the Puranas, you will find that the gods can actually be into themselves and their own doings with each other. The Puranas, and there are many, are the stories of the gods' lives, adventures, and doings. Some are actually hilarious (the marriage of Shiva and Parvati, for one). But these stories rarely involve humans.

          In most stories the gods will not intervene unless they are specifically called on for help. Even the gods pray to each other for favors and help. Rama prayed to Shiva before undertaking the battle with Ravana to rescue Sita. Krishna told Arjuna to pray to Durga for courage before the Kurukshetra War (Mahabharata). Vishnu did not intervene to rescue Gajendra from the crocodile until Gajendra called out to Vishnu offering him a lotus flower. Not that Vishnu was being vindictive, he just wasn't looking for things to do. Shiva is usually deep in meditation at Mount Kailasa.

          Ganesha is probably the one deity who is closest to this world and keeps an eye on people for their benefit. That's why he is invoked at the start of all pujas (worship services) and before any undertaking. My upg and mus (made-up-shit) is that Hanuman is also more proactively involved with us. Thor is also very easy to contact. Being the guardian and warder of Midgard, he's actively on the watch for us. He may be off beating the shit out of giants and trolls, but if his name is called for a good reason, he'll come running.

          Are there any gods or pantheons that do micromanage?
          That, I do not know.

          - - - Updated - - -

          Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
          Within modern neo-paganism though I think there is a lot of micromanaging though that is seen more as familial in purpose or usage. When you consider that just about every pagan, though not specifically heathens, you see seem to claim some one on one motherly, fatherly, sisterly or brotherly relationship to their god or goddess. The devotee can claim independence and freedom yet if they call upon or ask the god / goddess for everything and his / her interference then you have, in my opinion, self induced micromanaging. If they get what was asked for then the god / goddess was helpful, if not then they can blame the god / goddess as claim no culpability for themselves.
          I got my tongue ripped out and stomped on elsewhere for describing my relationship with Thor as a jockish big brother. But that was from a few people who consider themselves Asapope. Others agreed with me; the relationship can be such that Thor, as big brother will get you in a headlock and give you a noogie or wedgie, but don't let anyone else try it or he'll kick the shit out of them.

          Anyway, while that's a fun image I tend not to take it too seriously. Lately I've been asking Freyja to help me understand people and be more compassionate towards them. I ask Thor for strength, but I don't ask him to help me lift a weight in the gym. I don't ask Njordr or Lakshmi to make a deposit in my bank account, but rather to help me figure out how to get some financial matter resolved.... just give me advice. When things go well, I thank the gods, when things go not so well, I think I didn't try hard enough, not that they failed me. It's tacky to expect that they'll do things for us.
          śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
          śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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            #35
            Re: Are Germanic deities distant?

            I agree it is a case of following through with your own actions, and not just asking for help doing no more as was the case, when I was schooled as a catholic. Historically there is a lot of evidence for bent hair and clothing pins being thrown into wells from ancient times up until the 1930s. In some cases pricking the finger to draw blood first. For the purposes of making a wish or to will good luck on life events, perhaps this was common. Personally I identify more with Woden and the presence is felt when needed. I do believe hard work to build the life you and your family want is the warriors life style. Rather then having a drunken fight in a long house.

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