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    Homosexuality

    What is the position of Kemetism and ancient Egyptian religion on homosexuality? I've been getting some very conflicting signals from the texts, so some clarity would be nice.

    #2
    Re: Homosexuality

    For what it is worth, when I read any text I find myself working to separate the message from the messenger. No matter which location in space-time you are considering, there are cultural artifacts that may be historically interesting but are not necessary to the message. I am not claiming to know one thing or another about your tradition, which is why I have not answered the question. I do, however, encourage you to be clear about why the answer to this question matters to you.

    "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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      #3
      Re: Homosexuality

      For what it is worth,there is this.

      http://www.sebadamani.com/blog/setti...etic-sexuality

      I think Nbdy asked because it would depend if you yourself are gay,or you might have some objection on the matter.

      I think you are most likely aware that pagans in general are not anti gay generally
      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




      sigpic

      my new page here,let me know what you think.


      nothing but the shadow of what was

      witchvox
      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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        #4
        Re: Homosexuality

        Originally posted by nbdy View Post
        For what it is worth, when I read any text I find myself working to separate the message from the messenger. No matter which location in space-time you are considering, there are cultural artifacts that may be historically interesting but are not necessary to the message. I am not claiming to know one thing or another about your tradition, which is why I have not answered the question. I do, however, encourage you to be clear about why the answer to this question matters to you.
        It matters to me because I am gay and view a religion's stance on homosexuality as vital to whether or not I am a member of it.

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          #5
          Re: Homosexuality

          Very much understand that, I did not read through the piece on this from the site,it may bring some bit of light to your question.
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




          sigpic

          my new page here,let me know what you think.


          nothing but the shadow of what was

          witchvox
          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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            #6
            Re: Homosexuality

            I read that one of the negative confessions of the Book of the Dead: "I have not lain with men." However, I have heard that this is a poor translation and that this is actually about child molestation. Supporting this would be the fact that the translation I read is from the early 20th century, so it may have been translated like this to appease religious authorities, similar to how Egyptian religion was once claimed to be monotheistic. I've also read about the tomb of Nyankh-khnum and Khnum-hotep, which may indicate acceptance of homosexuality. There are no documents explicitly saying homosexuality was immoral in ancient Egypt nor a law punishing it. There's the story of king Pepi ll and his general officer. I've seen a Ramesside period ostracon depicting gay anal sex. Perhaps the story of Set and Horus is condemning rape more than homosexuality (as Seth's motives were to humiliate Horus). Not to mention, Ancient Egyptian religion varied from city to city and time to time. That's just some stuff I think could be important.

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              #7
              Re: Homosexuality

              Well... I second Anu and Nbdy here. Pagans are not anti gay in general. As for Kemetism - as long as you don't harm anyone, I don't think there should be a problem with it.
              A story for example is the story of Set and Heru, which you already brought up as an example..
              "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



              Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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                #8
                Re: Homosexuality

                I am a bisexual person who follows a number of Kemetic deities. How the ancient Egyptians viewed homosexuality is a topic up for debate, and considering the length that the culture had existed for it can be assumed that view points at different times may have changed. We do know that it was considered proper for people to marry in order to create offspring (similar traditions are found in several Mediterranean cultures). Society had different standards for sexuality- for example, the concept of virginity arrives very late in Egypt and unmarried individuals could freely have many partners, however infidelity is still highly improper and penalized (especially on females). There is some evidence to suggest that homosexuality was socially accepted, despite the expectation for heterosexual marriage, but we really do not know. Lesbianism is often ignored in ancient cultures and documentation of it is sparse in Egypt because of different standards and attitudes between men and women. There's some isolated cases of male court officials who behaved manners that imply homosexual attraction/partnerships but it's by no means heavily documented.

                Modern paganism and Kemet recons generally do not persecute homosexuality. Personally, I think the Heru/Set thing is kinda an awful supporting point since nearly all versions of the story set it up as attempted rape- for political reasons, rather than sexual preference. Pagans are not the type to tell people who to snog, and even if they are there's a billion different factions to choose from. I've had generally positive experiences working with Kemetic deities- especially the goddesses. I vaguely recall that Hathor became the patron Kemetic deity for homosexualiy, which would make sense since she is a goddess of love and sexuality, but I cant remember so don't hold me to that one.
                Circe

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                  #9
                  Re: Homosexuality

                  While I know nothing of the kemetics, the Northmen never had laws against marriage equality. Thousands of same-sex couples were wedded under the proud eyes of our Gods. We are actually one of the few old cultures that did not shun homosexuality. I am quite proud of this fact.
                  "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
                  And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
                  They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
                  The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
                  - Finn's Saga

                  http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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                    #10
                    Re: Homosexuality

                    Thank you. I'm now more secure in my faith.

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                      #11
                      Re: Homosexuality

                      Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                      While I know nothing of the kemetics, the Northmen never had laws against marriage equality. Thousands of same-sex couples were wedded under the proud eyes of our Gods. We are actually one of the few old cultures that did not shun homosexuality. I am quite proud of this fact.
                      By northmen do you mean the Norse? To my knowledge male homosexuality was shameful. Anything men could engage in that made them seem more "womanly" would be shameful. It's he reason why Odin was mocked in Lokasenna (23-24) under the implication he received sodomy to gain magical power. Right after Odin talks of how Loki bore Sleipnir. They both use the word argr to refer to these acts, a highly insulting word meaning effeminate. Ynglingasaga also reinforces that certain magic is feminine and men, fearing shame over being womanly, would not learn it. These texts are written after Christian introduction into the area but I don't recall anything substantial that proves what you've said.
                      Circe

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                        #12
                        Re: Homosexuality

                        Originally posted by Corvus View Post
                        Odin was mocked in Lokasenna (23-24) under the implication he received sodomy to gain magical power. Right after Odin talks of how Loki bore Sleipnir.
                        http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/gayvik.shtml

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