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    #76
    Re: Christopaganism

    Originally posted by Wenny View Post


    *Some the blogs endorse the book "To train a child up." by Micheal Pearl and that is a horrible book. The Pearls advocate spanking children with PVC piping and emphasize that parent need to "train" or break their children in to submission. They also advocate withhold food from 4months+ for "bad behavior."
    Oh yeah, we've talked about that piece of **** book a few times...
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #77
      Re: Christopaganism

      My mother proudly spoke once of how she yelled at me and swatted my butt for wetting my diaper when I was one month old. It was my baptism day and I was all dressed up, apparently, so it was an inconvenience. I remember being 2 or 3 and refusing to eat spinach. That was all I got for 2 days until I finally ate it. My folks weren't fundies, and that book hadn't been written yet. It's just what a lot of people did at that time. Now it's got a whole cult brought up around it.
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      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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        #78
        Re: Christopaganism

        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
        Oh yeah, we've talked about that piece of **** book a few times...
        Terrible book. I still tease up when I hear "Be sweet." or "When I say it, you obey it."

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          #79
          Re: Christopaganism

          Originally posted by Wenny View Post
          *Some the blogs endorse the book "To train a child up." by Micheal Pearl and that is a horrible book. The Pearls advocate spanking children with PVC piping and emphasize that parent need to "train" or break their children in to submission. They also advocate withhold food from 4months+ for "bad behavior."
          Growing up on James Dobson being the big influential book author for training children for life in Jesus sounds much easier now than this particular piece of work. My Mother held to her Aunt's faith of the "Holiness" movement which ran rampant through many of the Native Reservations throughout the Country when she was young. Things such as Rapture Theology, Extreme Dispensationalism and some Bizarre Eschatological Beliefs made for an interesting dinner topics each night with my family as I grew older and less Dogmatic towards Evangelical Theology.
          There is beauty in darkness for those who dare enter the shadows to embrace it. - John Coughlin

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            #80
            Re: Christopaganism

            Plain dress and veiling have always been a fascination of mine. I feel pulled to veil sometimes.

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              #81
              Re: Christopaganism

              I'm surprised that aspects related to nature worship within Christianity have not been emphasized as much here. To start, I define the term pagan as all those religious practices that are not tied to any temple but rather to nature, like worshipping in sacred springs, groves and such. Therefore, one finds that in Christianity there are practices like this that continue to be very common and have been so through history.

              For instance, the hermits who withdraw to forests to contemplate God, or the desert fathers who went to the desert to purify themselves. Then you have the grottos dedicated to saints and the Virgin Mary, as well as wells like the famous spring of Our Lady of Lourdes in France. In Ireland, there's the practice of venerating saints alongside trees from what I know.

              There's also another aspect of this debate that is ignored and that is the use of theology from other religions considered "pagan". This includes not only the influence of Egyptian, Sumerian, Canaanite and other such Near Eastern religions in the Bible (the work of Walter Burkert and Jan N. Bremmer is informative in this regard, as it is the book "Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament"), but also the use of Greek philosophy by both Jews and Christians. It is well-known that Christians had respect for Plato and Aristotle even in antiquity, and in the theological debates of the time they even used what Greek philosophers taught to criticize what they saw as the crass and vulgar polytheism of the Hellenes (for instance, Hippolytus of Rome).

              Also, I think that it is important to comment on the monotheism/polytheism issue. In my opinion, these are artificial constructs, and it is important to note that the term monotheism didn't exist until David Hume coined it in his book "Natural History of Religion". No Christian before this called him or herself "monotheist", and Christianity itself is not monotheistic due to its belief in angels, who are even venerated in virtually all denominations except for Protestantism. Angels even make an important part of such spiritual traditions like hesychasm, and there's the whole subset of theology called angelology.

              For that matter, the commandment to not worship any other god doesn't have to be seen as an insult to other deities as some believe. Even the Bible at one point says that different gods have been assigned to different nations. Gods can simply be seen as angels, and if neopagans are still not comfortable with this, they have to take into account that angels were also worshipped in the religions of the Mediterranean world. Homer calls Hermes and Iris angels, for instance, since the term simply means messenger, and similar terms exist in other Semitic religions. There was even a cult of angels that spread among Hellenes throughout the Roman Empire, and they are part of the theology of late Platonists like Iamblichus and Proclus.

              Now, I myself am not a "Christopagan", since I don't like mixing religions indiscriminately (I'm Roman Catholic, for the record). I do, however, have a great interest in other religions, including pagan ones. It's hard to explain why, but I don't harbor any hostility towards them and they are interesting to read and know about.

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                #82
                Re: Christopaganism

                That is interesting. I don't think we've ever had anybody lay it out like that before.

                The topic comes up from time to time, but more generally it becomes a debat about whether it is possible to BE a Christo-Pagan (I, myself, am of the opinion that a person can be - in terms of religious belief - whatever that person wishes to be, and can self-reference by whatever term one feels is appropriate).
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #83
                  Re: Christopaganism

                  I think the term would need a better definition as in Is it a Christian addition of pagan belief and practices OR is it as may be seen in Catholic practice incorporation of pagan ritual that allows pagans to become more Christian. So,do Christians change themselves to become partly pagan,or can pagans change Christians The question becomes do Christians become less Christian,or do pagans become less Pagan. Also how does either direction enhance the individuals spiritual path.?
                  MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                  all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                  NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                  don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                  sigpic

                  my new page here,let me know what you think.


                  nothing but the shadow of what was

                  witchvox
                  http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                    #84
                    Re: Christopaganism

                    Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                    I think the term would need a better definition as in Is it a Christian addition of pagan belief and practices OR is it as may be seen in Catholic practice incorporation of pagan ritual that allows pagans to become more Christian. So,do Christians change themselves to become partly pagan,or can pagans change Christians The question becomes do Christians become less Christian,or do pagans become less Pagan. Also how does either direction enhance the individuals spiritual path.?
                    Write all your questions on a piece of cigarette paper, wrap it around these sacred herbs that I will sell you, and burn it. You will dream the answers...
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                      #85
                      Re: Christopaganism

                      Ah,the master of magic comes through once more...All Hail B. De.
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                      sigpic

                      my new page here,let me know what you think.


                      nothing but the shadow of what was

                      witchvox
                      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Re: Christopaganism

                        Originally posted by Bacab View Post
                        I'm surprised that aspects related to nature worship within Christianity have not been emphasized as much here. To start, I define the term pagan as all those religious practices that are not tied to any temple but rather to nature, like worshipping in sacred springs, groves and such. Therefore, one finds that in Christianity there are practices like this that continue to be very common and have been so through history.
                        (snip)
                        There's also another aspect of this debate that is ignored and that is the use of theology from other religions considered "pagan". This includes not only the influence of Egyptian, Sumerian, Canaanite and other such Near Eastern religions in the Bible (the work of Walter Burkert and Jan N. Bremmer is informative in this regard, as it is the book "Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament"), but also the use of Greek philosophy by both Jews and Christians. It is well-known that Christians had respect for Plato and Aristotle even in antiquity, and in the theological debates of the time they even used what Greek philosophers taught to criticize what they saw as the crass and vulgar polytheism of the Hellenes (for instance, Hippolytus of Rome).
                        Little-p pagan is not the same as big-P Pagan. A religion can be pagan without being part of Paganism and can have pagan elements without being Pagan. Paganism is modern, regardless of what tradition one is part of and how much reconstruction it involves. Of course Christianity has elements of pagan religions--it comes from Judaism, and before Abraham, the Hebrew people worshipped a pantheon full of gods...vestigil traces remain, particularly from the places where Christians absorbed local Pagan customs and traditions to ease conversion (like Christmas). In the same sense, there are many left-overs of Christianity in Pagan traditions today, simply because most Pagans used to be Christian (for example the fundamentalist behavior of certain Heathen groups).

                        But Paganism isn't nature religion, regardless of how you define the term, certainly it can incorporate nature religion...but it is not exlusively so, and it is (and has been historically) a religion that is urban and in temples are much as not. And, TBH, while Pagans might debate the exact nuance of what Paganism is, you (as a Catholic) telling me what I am is about as accurate as a Baptist telling you that you are not Christian... :/

                        I think that it is important to comment on the monotheism/polytheism issue. In my opinion, these are artificial constructs, and it is important to note that the term monotheism didn't exist until David Hume coined it in his book "Natural History of Religion". No Christian before this called him or herself "monotheist", and Christianity itself is not monotheistic due to its belief in angels, who are even venerated in virtually all denominations except for Protestantism. Angels even make an important part of such spiritual traditions like hesychasm, and there's the whole subset of theology called angelology.
                        Considering there are over 38,000 denominations of Christians, the only thing you can say they unequivocally do, is religion with Jesus. The Christianity I was raised in didn't venerate angels (or for that matter, saints). Angels aren't considered to be gods, or even demi-gods. Its still a belief in one god, unless you want to make some arguement for the Trinity in trinitarian Christianities being polytheistic.

                        Really thought, doesn't matter if someone invented the word montheistic or not, that doesn't make it an artificial distinction as there is a very real difference between the world view in a one god vs plural gods system (T H Huxley invented agnosticism, Gottfried Reinhold Treveranus coined biology, and Churchill, antidisestablishmentarianism--saying that something is contrived because its invented is a logical fallacy). (see John Michael Greer's A World Full of Gods, and Shamans, Sorcerers, and Saints by Brian Hayden, and God against the Gods)






                        Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                        I think the term would need a better definition as in Is it a Christian addition of pagan belief and practices OR is it as may be seen in Catholic practice incorporation of pagan ritual that allows pagans to become more Christian. So,do Christians change themselves to become partly pagan,or can pagans change Christians The question becomes do Christians become less Christian,or do pagans become less Pagan. Also how does either direction enhance the individuals spiritual path.?
                        Honestly, I think its perfectly clear that it means someone that has taken elements of Paganism (whatever tradition that floats their boat) and elements of Christianity (whatever denomination floats their boat) and created something new.

                        Whether or not it is valid is on them.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #87
                          Re: Christopaganism

                          I like your answers Thal,BUT just because B. De. seems to have offered a solution that might involve smoking some holy herb...kinda caught my attention a little more...From the left hand side...
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                          sigpic

                          my new page here,let me know what you think.


                          nothing but the shadow of what was

                          witchvox
                          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

                            Originally posted by InspiringRaine View Post
                            I've been through a bit of a religious turmoil that's ripped up any and all roots I was cultivating before. My foundation is gone. As such, it's taken me a long time to really examine what I feel most closely aligned with. The answer that is turning up resembles something akin to Christo-paganism, but is still a bit different.

                            I am really wanting to get people's opinion's on Christo-paganism, and see what y'all have to say on the matter. I know the term seems almost contradictory, but I'm not really educated enough about different sects of Christianity as I am different types of paganism.

                            If it helps anybody, I can describe how I'm personally approaching the term, but I'd rather wait to do so in the comments. Let me know what y'all's thinky brains think about the term! Thanks.
                            This is a really old thread, so I hope its okay to respond. It also has a lot of responses so if someone already covered this, just ignore me.

                            I've not heard of a Christo-paganism, as such, but my knowledge is really limited to Bible study rather than religions.

                            The pagan influence in modern day Christianity is hardly anything new. In fact most of what is known as Christianity comes, not from the Bible, but rather from pagan influences. The Trinity, the immortal soul, hell, the cross, Christmas and Easter - all holidays are pagan.

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