Christopaganism

[AnMa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I have to respectfully disagree with this statement as I feel that it is a vast oversimplification that ignores the realities of both sets of religious traditions.

Firstly because not all Pagans are polytheists (as a historical example, Akenhaten abandoned the polytheism of ancient Egypt in favor of a monotheistic or henotheistic worship of Aten). Also, many contemporary pagans are pantheists, including panentheists...

Yes of course. I tend to use "pagan" or "heathen" in its ancient meaning. That has changed over time, but I think nowadays we are pretty much back there.

And, to some extent, because Paganism is more about practice--about praxis, than it is about belief...one can practice the worship of a single god while acknowleging the existence of others or practice the worship of many gods while ultimately believing that they are representative of one divine force without much contradition or mental gymnastics.

Yes, it was Christianity that introduced belief into the religion in the Roman Empire. Before that, in pagan times, religion was practice and belief was something only philosophers argued about. That is just another issue why I think it is strange to combine paganism and Abrahamic faith. Of course one can do that by ignoring some of their fundamental building blocks if that produces a suitable religion or belief. But it makes no sense to me, because we have two completely different concepts here.

[Thorbjorn]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I have no issues with Christo-Paganism being a legitimate path. I often find that the same "arguments" I hear people make about how Christianity and Paganism aren't compatible are the same made for when they attempt to invalidate my path by telling me that a Satanist can't be a Pagan because I venerate a "Christian" deity. :shakefist:

I agree with you, I don't have a problem with Christo-Paganism. However, I think it takes some work and time to rethink some things, especially if one has been deeply entrenched in mainstream Christian thought. I'll give my example. When I was Eastern Orthodox Christian, and actually before that, I believed in the Hindu deities. I don't think I ever discounted other deities as being real. I was simply drawn to the Hindu deities. I believed that all deities, all existence is a manifestation of God. So it made Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu no less God than Jesus. Jesus happened to be my ishta-devata, Sanskrit for personal deity. And that was because of my western cultural lens. If someone sees Jesus as God or a god, but also sees other deities as no more or less God than Jesus, I don't think there is a problem.

[nbdy]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I have known a couple of women who called themselves Christian Pagans and they were fine. If the symbols of the Christian tradition speak to you there is no reason to discard them. imo, of course.

[Medusa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

You know I used to be all they can't be intertwined! They don't mesh! They conflict!

Then I remember I was raised Catholic.
Candles
Colors
Incense
Statues
prayer
wearing robes and singing in Latin stuff I have no idea what was being said.

Yup. I recant all that.


Don't even get me started on the church snake people either.

[habbalah]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

Don't even get me started on the church snake people either.

Okay, now I have to ask: what are the church snake people?

[Medusa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

The Pentecostal snake churches. Where people handle snakes because it was mentioned in the bible or some such nonsense.

Here's the thing. When I was searching for a religion after my father passed, I found myself being drawn toward the umbrella of Pagan religions. I didn't believe in Christianity in the first place. I pretty much was raised Catholic because that's my family and that's how it's done in a Mexican household. But I was never a believer. So after I started looking at the different forms of Paganism and Wicca..I found they all sorta...smelled Christian. Either a more hedonistic version or a green version or an all female worship the fat figure Christian. When you are an atheist with an atheist perspective (not better then theists at all. Just different) You view religion in a more social human behavior type way. All those Pagan religions are just sisters of Christianity and vice versa. It's why I stay away from both. Though as people they may be very different. When I read their words without knowing what religion they are...they all sorta sound the same. So. There's that.

[thalassa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

Though as people they may be very different. When I read their words without knowing what religion they are...they all sorta sound the same. So. There's that.

...is this like how, when I listen to Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins talk about religion, I'm reminded of Fred Phelps talking about everyone that isn't Westboro?

[Medusa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

...is this like how, when I listen to Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins talk about religion, I'm reminded of Fred Phelps talking about everyone that isn't Westboro?

Yes. Exactly like that. The truth is humans on the norm are pretty same across the board in moderation. I had a close friend who was very much opposite of me. He was a nerdy laid back pot smoking Radio Head Sigur Ros loving dude. I dislike radio Head and all that 'hipster new hippy music! I'm a metal gal through and through. But the way we both talked with passion about our love of our particular favorite bands...was the same. It allowed us to talk to each other and be close knowing the important things to know about a person are those things. The things that bring us the same passion and joy. Most of the world lives in that nice comfy middle line.

Which is why I dislike Phelps and the like. And why I detest anyone who is an atheist who just quotes Hitchins or Dawkins. Atheism has been around long before those two came into trending hashtag topics.


Girl. You know I'm an equal opportunity hater.

[Wonder]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

All those Pagan religions are just sisters of Christianity and vice versa. It's why I stay away from both. Though as people they may be very different. When I read their words without knowing what religion they are...they all sorta sound the same. So. There's that.

I don't subscribe to any particular religion either, whether they be Pagan or not. I am always asking questions and don't quite agree with everything that's been taught or assumed, that's why I decided to explore and ultimately find my own beliefs. Some call it Eclectic Paganism, but all I know for sure is that I am seeker. My belief system is pantheistic at it's core, but I draw into various spiritual concepts or religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity mostly. There are wisdoms and very interesting thing to learn in most religions, you just have to scratch the surface, setting asides the dogma and interpretations and look for it.

[Medusa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I would expect most religions to be similar in some ways. I mean they all have the human hand that forged them. They all come with human emotions and ideals wrapped in 'deity'. All of us are human. We are bound to want the same sort of ideals in our gods. On a wide generalization I would use the word Power. All gods from a big variety of religions tend to have at least this at their core. Whether creation deities or not. They are above and beyond human. But upon further scrutiny all seem to bear the skin of human emotions in one way or another.


*rubs pointy ears....fascinating

[AnMa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I would expect most religions to be similar in some ways. I mean they all have the human hand that forged them. They all come with human emotions and ideals wrapped in 'deity'. All of us are human. We are bound to want the same sort of ideals in our gods. On a wide generalization I would use the word Power. All gods from a big variety of religions tend to have at least this at their core. Whether creation deities or not. They are above and beyond human. But upon further scrutiny all seem to bear the skin of human emotions in one way or another.

Yes. But there are religious people who accept that and those who do not. Like those who think their religion is no religion as they believe it is not made by men (like all the others) but by their god. If you understand how religion works (incl. your own), i.e. having a somewhat neutral view on it, you can better handle it and avoid falling into fundamentalism or other strange behaviours. I observed that many people believe that understanding how something works would devalue it. Like emotions. If we know how they function, by chemical and electrical processes, they loose they deeper meaning somehow. I strongly disagree to that. Something beautiful is still beautiful, no matter whether that is a Platonic idea, a supernatural thing or some signals hitting the right receptors. A god is something honourable, no matter whether he or she is a supernatural entitiy, a human concept or a Jungian archetype. And yes both, beauty and what's honourable, are a matter of personal opinions. That's how it works.

[Wonder]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

I would expect most religions to be similar in some ways. I mean they all have the human hand that forged them. They all come with human emotions and ideals wrapped in 'deity'. All of us are human. We are bound to want the same sort of ideals in our gods. On a wide generalization I would use the word Power. All gods from a big variety of religions tend to have at least this at their core. Whether creation deities or not. They are above and beyond human. But upon further scrutiny all seem to bear the skin of human emotions in one way or another.

At this point we could venture and say that just about every single beliefs on Earth have the human hand (or mind in this case) that forged them, including Satanism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

[Medusa]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

At this point we could venture and say that just about every single beliefs on Earth have the human hand (or mind in this case) that forged them, including Satanism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

True. Only as an atheist I recognize that truth.

[InspiringRaine]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

Thank you everybody for your replies.

There has been a lot of stuff mentioned that I need to think over, but think over it I will. I'm a little flattered my thread even got to 3 pages, Lol.

I can try and give out a more thoughtful reply when I have more figured out, because I'd really like to discuss the inner workings of how it may work together. It's just a matter of figuring out exactly where the Trinity fits into my developing beliefs. I think what I'm mostly drawn to, is the trinity and Mary, but that's pretty much it? While I can respect the bible for it's teachings, some of it rubs me the wrong way.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Thoughts on Christo-paganism? Or Christ centered Paganism?

If Mary is a point of interest you might look into the Cult of Mary that was part of the Catholic Church up till about the 3rd century AD. Some consider it was the continuation of the Cult of Artemis / Diana from Ephesus / Ephesos as that is the location where legend say's Mary was taken to and would eventually die.

My personal opinion though is that most if not all the Christo-Pagans i've come across over the years keep Christianity as part of it as a get out of jail free card. They claim they never really left the Church and can there for return to it, no harm no foul type thing. After all Jesus was always the center of their beliefs. Though I honestly have always wondered why not simply embrace one of the many Christian pathway's that still claim Jesus and the base teachings but follow their own tenants such as the Gnostics did. Lot's of various pathway's and splinter groups that were still Christian but didn't follow the Catholic Church. Sort of like the group that reclaimed the fish as the sign of Christianity vice using the cross or the Celtic Christian Church that incorporated a lot of Celtic and Irish lore into the church.