Ásatrúarfélagið getting hate mail over temple in Iceland

[Näre]

I have a teacher"]".
Makes me wonder how many of all the heathens actually have any kind of access to a tribe, it must be even more difficult than for Buddhists and the like..

[Thorbjorn]

Makes me wonder how many of all the heathens actually have any kind of access to a tribe...

:nod: I have had that very thought. It sounds like "the lady doth protest too much, methinks" when they make a big deal about their tribe and their community.

[DragonsFriend]

[Thorbjorn]

[Munin-Hugin]

You can't be much more than four hours from me (and most likely much less than that). Maybe we should organize our own little simbel and see who'd like to come! I've got a nice big yard, and I'm sure my cranky old neighbors would just stroke out to look out their window late at night and see a bunch of folks drinking and carrying on around a bonfire in my backyard! Lol!

[Thorbjorn]

[Marradin]

[CrazyAfterlife]

CENSORED hate people who use Asatru to back up racial or homophobic views. If the gods only liked white people they would have only made white people. Every human is equal, and anyone of any race and sexuality can be a Heathen, I mean, we all came from apes. I'm a Bisexual and I had a pretty good time being a Heathen.

[Thorbjorn]

Are you by chance into nationalism, white power and the like ? This would explain your interest in Nordic culture and religion.

Me: No, I'm not nationalistic or racist at all. It's the religion of the Norse, being revived. Hence my profile picture of Thor, and my handle.

Him: Well that's interesting, usually people with these interests that don't have any ancestry from Nordic, Eastern European or countries with Germanic/Frankish roots have an affinity with Nazism or Nordicism and the likes.

Me: Though I identify primarily as Italian-Sicilian, I have almost 30% northern European per GEDmatch (which I am beginning to trust more than 23andMe's reports), some of which is Scandi, Norman, UK... all areas of Germanic and Norse influence.

Him: What are you talking about, are you serious !? If you're really Southern Italian by blood you can never have 30% of your genetic makeup being identical to Northern European or even Central European populations. You could have a Norman ancestor somewhere down the line but the chance of you having one is very small if you haven't any documented proof of it like a solid paper trail and even then why would you take any credit into having Norman ancestry, they were invaders after all. To compare or identify yourself with a 'Barbarian' in southern Italian culture is not treated as being healthy and that's mildly expressed.

I could go on and on here about the effect and impact of the Normans in Sicily, especially NW Sicily where my ancestors are from, but suffice to say, the Norman influence was much greater than a lot of people (Italians) are willing to admit. And then there was this comment from another person. I had mentioned that racist groups have no idea that they are anything but "pure" Germanic... there is no "pure" anything.

You say that "Nordic racist" people wouldn't even want to have their DNA tested because it might prove their ideas of themselves incorrect. I don't know about "Nordic racist" people but lots of Northern European-descended people have had their DNA tested and the results tend to back up their oral traditions and family trees: they are as Nordic-Germanic as can be. ... My family tree is filled with Nordic and Germanic surnames as well as some Gaelic and Brythonic Celtic ones. The ancient Nordic-Germanic religion is part of my ancestral heritage, not some kind of New Age product that one decides to buy into. Peace be with you.

I thought the "Peace be with you"veiled racism. So even when it's brought to a scientific level, racism, ethnicism, and nationalism are alive and well.

[Briton]

really believes in Odin, he's just an archetype." I may be wrong but I am not aware of any sagas portraying him as just a metaphor, but a real deity. Seems to me like they are actually atheists disenchanted with their Christian roots but too embarrassed or cynical to say they believe in gods, but still want order and ritual in their life. As for gay marriage, whatever floats your boat, but where there any explicitly gay gods or figures of legend, or were most men just straight? If they didn't care about homosexuality back then, where are the saga writings about how being gay is OK? It's not that I care less what people do in the privacy of their own home, but it does sound a little like they are projecting 21st century European morality backward 1500 years or so. If they are saying "we are modernizing the religion, we know they didn't do gay marriages back then." then fine, but they aren't, are they? They're saying "well, we don't even believe in the gods."

[Munin-Hugin]

I personally do sympathize with the concept of regional beliefs. Not that "if you're not white you can't be heathen", but that if the heathen gods wanted Africans, native Americans or Asians to worship them, why didn't they appear to them, and why do these religions differ? As an Englishman I don't feel I belong to these heathen deities and that they don't belong to me (certainly it put distance between myself and Christianity initially, before I broke away completely). I feel they were worshipped here because those who did worship them originated from Germanic regions, but I don't connect with them at all, it's very foreign. If people want to worship them then by all means do so and I'd love to visit a heathen temple in Britain just like I enjoy seeing the massive cathedrals and Anglo-Saxon churches in England, it's a sub-culture, really.

In a way, your statement here about cultural origins of a religion only being comfortably followed in the place of it's origin would therefore mean that only those of Middle Eastern descent would been comfortable following Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as well. Yet, as is very clear, millions of people from all countries, backgrounds, and ancestral roots can be found in these religions. Going to a Heathen place of worship and being told "you have to be of Nordic/Germanic roots to practice here" would be the same as going to a Catholic Church and being told that "you need to prove you have Middle Eastern roots to pray here".

As for gay marriage, whatever floats your boat, but where there any explicitly gay gods or figures of legend, or were most men just straight? If they didn't care about homosexuality back then, where are the saga writings about how being gay is OK? It's not that I care less what people do in the privacy of their own home, but it does sound a little like they are projecting 21st century European morality backward 1500 years or so. If they are saying "we are modernizing the religion, we know they didn't do gay marriages back then." then fine, but they aren't, are they? They're saying "well, we don't even believe in the gods."

Now, I may be wrong about this, since there are so many sources available out there that may or may not have validity, but if I remember correctly from past exploration into the matter, the case of homosexuality was an interesting one in Norse culture. They really didn't care if you were gay or not, so long as you also stepped up and did your duty to the community as a whole. Now, keep in mind that at the time, the survival of the community relied upon reproduction, both for the continuation of a family line and for more able bodies to keep the agrarian culture alive. So when it comes down to it, you could have sex with whoever you wanted, male or female, as long as you also procreated. Now, those who avoided such because of their sexual preferences were shunned and looked down upon NOT because of their sexual practices, but because they refused to do what they had to for the good of the community.

To go along with that, it's interesting to note that the same "two sided" treatment was projected upon those who engaged in homosexuality. Again, while no one really seemed to care if you did or didn't do it, the "position" you took reflected upon how you were viewed. If you were the "top", there was no problem. You were a take charge kind of person, in control, strong, and dominant. But, if you were the "bottom", it was thought of that you were a more submissive person, willing to let others do things for you, and that you were more of a follower.

To tie it in to today's world, things have to evolve, as was said. We are no longer so heavily focused upon the continuation of the family line, and obviously do not live in a predominantly agrarian society. Population is pretty much out of control, so the need to reproduce to survive is also off the table. With that in mind, and the requirement to "do your duty" to ensure the community's survival no longer an issue, all we're left with is this: Do what you do, and let other's do what they do.

[Briton]

In a way, your statement here about cultural origins of a religion only being comfortably followed in the place of it's origin would therefore mean that only those of Middle Eastern descent would been comfortable following Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as well. Yet, as is very clear, millions of people from all countries, backgrounds, and ancestral roots can be found in these religions. Going to a Heathen place of worship and being told "you have to be of Nordic/Germanic roots to practice here" would be the same as going to a Catholic Church and being told that "you need to prove you have Middle Eastern roots to pray here".

If people want to worship them then by all means do so...

I also never said that I have anything against people who wish to join heathen worship with no roots in it. If you read carefully, I stated

I don't feel I belong to these heathen deities and that they don't belong to me.

and

but I don't connect with them at all, it's very foreign.

These are personal assertions. People are free, more or less (within the limits of the law) to practice whatever religious beliefs they desire. The only reason I mention geographical religion is for myself, I felt a hypocrite being a Christian. This, by no means, implies I think everyone should follow this line of thinking. The only person who needs to satisfy obedience to this "rule" in order for me to be at peace is myself.

[Thorbjorn]

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/gayvik.shtml

As for Asians or Africans or other non-Europeans being called to Heathenism, the gods choose whom they will for their own purposes. It's not up to us to say whom the gods can call to follow them, or whom they reveal themselves to. Everyone sees the gods in their own way. I'm a 99.9% hard polytheist who believes in deities from many other pantheons; I respect them. Only for a time did I worship the Hindu deities; but even now I still have their statues around because I still have an affinity for them. And I'm a pasty white European-American. The African, Hindu, Taoist, Buddhist, Egyptian, Canaanite deities call white westerners. Go figure.