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Thread: The Gods

  1. #11
    ...uhh Bjorn's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    Woah, I've abandoned this on accident.

    All right, let me just clarify that I'm not looking for google, wikipedia, or other site copy and paste sessions for this. I was hoping to grab a few people with understanding and share what we all know - huge paragraphs turn me off from reading, especially if I could just google the information anyway.

    Not saying anyone did that... but there's a LOTTA info up there!



    That being said, I'm FASCINATED by what Perez said up there. And your name makes perfect sense now, as well.

    Hades DOES get a bad rap. They drew stars after a battle that lasted like, a decade, and got stuck with the underworld? Tough luck, man. I understood that he won a battle with his brothers (Zeus and Poseidon) against... the Titans... (I could be wrong about that) and actually used his Invisible Helmet to ruin the enemies wares. To me, he was always a neutral deity that was there to establish a balance and then strive to maintain it.

    I think it's VERY cool how you relate to Hades, Perez. Would you mind sharing more? Perhaps because I already HAVE an emotionally distant father, the idea of Hades is just a bit... meh. I am very interested in picking your brain though, so please share!
    No one tells the wind which way to blow.

  2. #12

    Re: The Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabasterBuffalo View Post
    I must say I find no connections with Ares, just because he is a greek god does not mean he is a nice guy even Zeus has been quoted as saying that Ares is his least favorite. Where as Athena was the Goddess of Tactful war and was often seen with Nike in hand, Ares rode in a chariot pulled by terror and fear. Ares was also the only greek god tried for murder, you think Hades was a bad guy (well truthfully hades got the bad end of the stick and was actually a kind feller) Ares was pretty much a monster, I dont even think the Titans would have enjoyed chilling with him.
    A very one-sided view taken from glancing at just a couple of myths. This completely disregards the fact that Ares is a loving father who would go to the ends of the earth for his children, is one of, if not the only major Greek male deity who was never portrayed in myth as having raped a woman (whether you are using the term to refer to sexual assault, or the older definition of rape being abduction, it still applies wither way) and he never attacked unprovoked. If you look at his page on theoi.com, you find far more myths attesting to instances of his bestowing favor than you find on his wrath.

    I've never heard of terror and fear pulling his chariot- Deimos and Phobos are two of his sons, and there are a number of quotes where they get his horses and chariot ready, but they don't pull it.

    Nevermind the fact that Ares is also the father of Harmonia, Anteros (a god of either requited or unrequited love, depending on who you're asking) and in some accounts, Eros.

    Here we have the Homeric Hymn to Ares. Does this look like it's all about a god that everyone hates?

    Ares, exceeding in strength, chariot-rider, golden- helmed, doughty in heart, shield-bearer, Saviour of cities, harnessed in bronze, strong of arm, unwearying, mighty with the spear, O defence of Olympus, father of warlike Victory, ally of Themis, stern governor of the rebellious, leader of righteous men, sceptred King of manliness, who whirl your fiery sphere among the planets in their sevenfold courses through the aether wherein your blazing steeds ever bear you above the third firmament of heaven; hear me, helper of men, giver of dauntless youth! Shed down a kindly ray from above upon my life, and strength of war, that I may be able to drive away bitter cowardice from my head and crush down the deceitful impulses of my soul. Restrain also the keen fury of my heart which provokes me to tread the ways of blood-curdling strife. Rather, O blessed one, give you me boldness to abide within the harmless laws of peace, avoiding strife and hatred and the violent fiends of death.
    Comparing Ares and Athena as deities of war, I've heard it said that Athena is like the General, planning everything, strategizing, organizing the campaign. She's back there in a war rooms, telling everyone else what to do. She stays fairly clean. Ares is more like the low-ranking officer or the enlisted soldier, he's out there on the field, fighting the battles. War is horrifying, war is dirty. It's not glorious or glamorous, he's the guy in the trenches, getting blood on his hands.

    The myths are imoportant, but there is much more than the myths to look at. If I were going to arrange the Greek gods along a "nice guy" scale (No, I don't think gods are at all "nice guys" but I think you know what I mean) I would put Ares well ahead of most of the other gods, including the one to whom I am devoted. Oh, and you want to talk about scary? Apollo's got most- maybe even all- of them beat any day and twice on Sunday, if you ask me.

    I need to do some errands, but I might come back and write one about Apollo a bit later this evneing.
    Last edited by PainAndLight; 29 Oct 2011 at 15:46.
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  3. #13
    Cannibal Rights Activist Ophidia's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorn View Post
    That being said, I'm FASCINATED by what Perze said up there. And your name makes perfect sense now, as well.

    Hades DOES get a bad rap. They drew stars after a battle that lasted like, a decade, and got stuck with the underworld? Tough luck, man. I understood that he won a battle with his brothers (Zeus and Poseidon) against... the Titans... (I could be wrong about that) and actually used his Invisible Helmet to ruin the enemies wares. To me, he was always a neutral deity that was there to establish a balance and then strive to maintain it.

    I think it's VERY cool how you relate to Hades, Perze. Would you mind sharing more? Perhaps because I already HAVE an emotionally distant father, the idea of Hades is just a bit... meh. I am very interested in picking your brain though, so please share!
    I've actually had to back away from Hades and Persephone. My depression was just getting worse and worse, along with a general attitude of fatalism and defeatism. They're still my patron God and Goddess, but I can't actively seek Them out as much. They are compassionate in Their own fashion, but so somber, and Their energy & presence is extremely grounding and earth-bound.

    There are aspects to Hades that people overlook, much like Ares' 'good side'. Hades holds the key to underground riches - mines, gems, and mineral wealth. Mines are always dangerous places because you can't take without giving something in return. Vulcan/Hephaestos may be the Master Crafter, but without Hades' cooperation, there would be nothing for him to forge. In His convoluted synthesis with the Roman Pluto/Pluton/Plutus/Dis/Dis Pater, the connection to mineral wealth is stronger, along with the harvest.

    Hades is the advocate of everyone's right to a proper funeral. Abuse and mutilation of corpses and vandalism of graveyards are highly offensive to Him. It's through Hades' influence that I started studying death, funerary rites & customs. I'm an armchair thanatologist, and have done some volunteering in the field of 'death rights' - the right to education on thanatological laws, transparency of the funeral industry, green burial, all of that. That's how I regularly make offerings of service to Hades and Persephone, since sheep are a little hard to come by in Vegas, and the neighbors don't appreciate the sounds of slaughter :P
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

  4. #14
    Jr. Member Marek's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by Eglentyne View Post
    I don't know of many Pagans who have a thing for Hades.

    He is absolutely terrifying. Actually, the Greeks felt this way too. Worship to him was done out of fear, offering made to placate, because death was such a cold and somber thing for those peoples.

    He dominates, swallows you. There is no anger or malice in his disposition, he just.... his presence sucks the wind out of you. It's paralyzing.

    I'm absolutely hypnotized by it.
    Could be the season.

    Oh sweetheart, don't fear Hades! He's not "cute and cuddly" by any means, but there are some various things to keep in mind when working with him.

    From a healer's perspective, Death is the final step in the healing process. It is when all inefficient energies have left the building and we are reduced to our bare bone qualities. This is a very humbling experience, and too often our ego gets in the way of properly working with Hades. In my time of working with Crystal Skulls I have learned that overcoming the fear of death is the first step to being reborn. The trees shed their leaves without any promise that they will grow back, but if they held on to them then the tree would not be able to survive the winter (save the evergreens, but even that provides much insight into Dionysian worship).

    Also, Hades is not a god of bargaining and his word is final. He is the ruler of the Underworld and has no practical interest in what goes on up here or in the heavens. He has his own things to tend to. We do not anger Zeus lest the sky falls upon us, nor do we mock Poseidon lest the sea rises against us. It is equally unwise to cross Hades, because sooner or later we all turn to him at sunset. "All mortals fall to Hades".

    That said, Hades loves an oath and it does well to refer to him as "King Hades" or "Lord Hades". I'd only visit him in ritual with other chthonic deities that are known for traveling to the Underworld. And even then, there is protocol to follow. When I visited him the first time he required some pretty hefty sacrifices as far as sentiment goes. I've never been reduced to tears like that in meditation, but indeed if we are to "die" then we have to be ready to sacrifice everything for the truth that comes from being freed from attachments.

    If you wish to visit Hades in meditation, I recommend keeping these elements in the process:
    Cave meditation with Hecate to guide you to the Underworld
    Making offerings of coins to Charon to gain passage across the River
    Avoid thinking too long on the Ancestors while you're there, it is too easy to get lost in the Underworld
    If Snakes pop up in your mind, do not get startled. Hades may test your bravery as you go.
    Light a black candle when you feel as if you've "walked" enough. Ask Hades to join you. Having a chair with an animal skin on it as a "throne" does well for him.
    I suggest asking him questions and drawing Tarot cards. He seemed very fond of "The Aquarian Tarot" by David Palladini

    And a word of caution, because he more deceptive than we are. If you are used to asking for a blessing to be placed into food or drink after a meditation session with a god or goddess, do not consume anything in his presence. Wait until you've returned to the mundane world before eating or drinking anything he has blessed.

    Overall I've learned much from Hades, but I am thankful that Apollo and Dionysus are equally able to meet my healing challenges and teach me 99% of the time.

  5. #15
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    Hades/Pluto (I'm not sure how distinct they are from.each other) is far as I can remember the only Olympian that I've called on. My family had a financial issue years ago and I called on him in his capacity as Lord of Riches within the Earth. A solution popped up later that week. All told, I'm not likely to seek out a deep relationship with him. I generally avoid the Olympians (considering some comments I've made about Zeus, avoidance is probably wise) but Pluto has done alright by me in the past and that's not something I intend to forget.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  6. #16
    Jr. Member Marek's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    Hades/Pluto (I'm not sure how distinct they are from.each other) is far as I can remember the only Olympian that I've called on. My family had a financial issue years ago and I called on him in his capacity as Lord of Riches within the Earth. A solution popped up later that week. All told, I'm not likely to seek out a deep relationship with him. I generally avoid the Olympians (considering some comments I've made about Zeus, avoidance is probably wise) but Pluto has done alright by me in the past and that's not something I intend to forget.
    Have you tried apologizing and making offerings? One way to get the blessing of Zeus in your house is to honor the agricultural side of him (it's a little less terrorizing than the kingly side of infallible will). Get a mason jar with a tight fitting lid, preferably with a one-piece lid and fill it will olive oil, water, and honey. Close the lid tightly and give it a good shake. Open it up and add herbs and other things significant to you. I usually add bay leaves, some grapes or cranberries (depending on the season), a piece of chocolate, some amber.. the possibilities are endless. Place this jar in your pantry and re-do it on the new moon of each month. Each time pray for his blessing over the house and perhaps pour some wine into the ground for him (water it down though). Keep it up and perhaps he will forgive you for any comments you've made.

    If that doesn't work you could try appealing to Hermes, his messenger. The Olympians were believed to have human like emotions, and nothing kills a grudge faster than a heart felt apology. Just don't focus on any negative energy that may or may not be present. Zeus was known as "Deus Agaithos" or "The Good God". He was also seen as the God who loved mankind more than any other deity. He is strong-willed like a father, but also compassionate in times of need.

    ---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Marek View Post
    Have you tried apologizing and making offerings? One way to get the blessing of Zeus in your house is to honor the agricultural side of him (it's a little less terrorizing than the kingly side of infallible will). Get a mason jar with a tight fitting lid, preferably with a one-piece lid and fill it will olive oil, water, and honey. Close the lid tightly and give it a good shake. Open it up and add herbs and other things significant to you. I usually add bay leaves, some grapes or cranberries (depending on the season), a piece of chocolate, some amber.. the possibilities are endless. Place this jar in your pantry and re-do it on the new moon of each month. Each time pray for his blessing over the house and perhaps pour some wine into the ground for him (water it down though). Keep it up and perhaps he will forgive you for any comments you've made.

    If that doesn't work you could try appealing to Hermes, his messenger. The Olympians were believed to have human like emotions, and nothing kills a grudge faster than a heart felt apology. Just don't focus on any negative energy that may or may not be present. Zeus was known as "Deus Agaithos" or "The Good God". He was also seen as the God who loved mankind more than any other deity. He is strong-willed like a father, but also compassionate in times of need.
    Oh, and don't worry about the jar getting moldy. In my less-pious times I've left the same jar sitting for 3-4 months and opened it up without any spores jumping at me and no visible mold. Honey and garlic are anti-microbials so as long as you're washing and refilling the jar each month there shouldn't be any funkies in there!

  7. #17
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    At the end of the day, concern that Zeus might be annoyed with me is the least of the reasons that I don't interact with Olympus. I just don't call on known deities often. That may change given time but the entity that I'm looking into isn't connected to Olympus. I'm happy to say good things about Pluto occasionally because he helped my family out of a bind some years ago but I'm not that interested in going much further at this moment.

    I may render apologies (out of courtesy if nothing else) eventually anyway depending on a couple factors but I'm not seeking the favor of Zeus at the moment.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  8. #18
    Cannibal Rights Activist Ophidia's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    I don't truck much with Zeus either, or Thor... or any other God of lightning.

    I've been hit by lightning indirectly three times already. That's plenty.
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

  9. #19
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    I'm not entirely certain that I could call on Thor right now without thinking of the short, grey supreme commander of the Asgard fleet in SG-1. Granted, SG-1 Thor is awesome but I'm not sure the divinity Thor would appreciate the comparison.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  10. #20
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: The Gods

    It's very improtant to remember that myths are protean. They are not fixed. They contradict each other - often wildly. Also the myths that appear in literature don't always tie up all that well with myths as depicted in art. For example, very few literary myths mention the cockerel in the story of Ganymede's abduction by Zeus, yet it's a common feature in pottery. Also, depending on what sources you use, myths had a political motive even back in the 1st century CE. IMHO it's very difficult to separate a myth from its context. If you want to use myth as shown in Homer, then you need to acknowledge that and explore why that myth was shown in the way it was.

    Mythology is a tremendously complex subject. When exploring it we not only need to look at where it comes from, but how it was originally meant to be received, and how it was meant to be interpreted. If you use myth as found in Euripides, for example, remember that this was originally a play, intended for a specific festival. And if you look at Euripidean myth as used in Roman times you have to remember that this was no longer received as a whole play, but mostly as chosen excerpts, or even transformed into pantomime. (which in those days was a solo dance that covered a whole series of myths, often performed to music).
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