Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"natural rights"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Re: "natural rights"

    Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
    Life and Choice

    You exist, congrats you have a right to your life for as long as you can keep breathing.

    You are capable of thought and action? You have a right to choose how you respond to given conditions. You have an oblivation to deal with the consequences of your choices but you get choices.

    Past those, you have those rights afforded to you by others or that you can attain and defend through your own abilities.
    Basically this. Also I want to add something. Receiving help from others if you deserve it.
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

    Comment


      #17
      Re: "natural rights"

      Originally posted by Gleb View Post
      Basically this. Also I want to add something. Receiving help from others if you deserve it.
      I believe in offering help to those in need - deserving or not.
      After all, I feed the birds in my garden - but I never stop to ask the sparrows whether they're hardworking or not, or whether they're deserving.
      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

      Comment


        #18
        Re: "natural rights"

        Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
        I believe in offering help to those in need - deserving or not.
        After all, I feed the birds in my garden - but I never stop to ask the sparrows whether they're hardworking or not, or whether they're deserving.
        Lol of course, Tylluan. I meant humans. You have a point here, but you won't offer help to someone who... Let's say... Did something very bad to you in the past, will you?
        "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



        Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

        Comment


          #19
          Re: "natural rights"

          Originally posted by Gleb View Post
          Lol of course, Tylluan. I meant humans. You have a point here, but you won't offer help to someone who... Let's say... Did something very bad to you in the past, will you?
          But that's a personal thing. Here we're talking generally. And I do appreciate that I am so far to the left of centre in this that some of you probably think I'm a communist or something.

          So I do believe that people deserve food, shelter, a chance at education, good healthcare free at the point of use and all that. Otherwise all we have is a bear pit, and as human beings I think we all deserve better than that.

          As for doing bad things... birds do too, sometimes. One of them shat all over my washing last week...
          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

          Comment


            #20
            Re: "natural rights"

            I agree with Gleb and Tylluan Penrys sayings. But when it comes to the subtitels I do think natural rights differ greatly from human rights. An example of a natural right is survival of the fittest. Still myself and many humans, by humans rights, feeling, moral and ethiqs helps out not so fit humans, wich in the wild would have been dead.

            Still I am all up for helping people and I like it.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: "natural rights"

              I'm for helping people as well. Every rule has an exception, though. It will take too long for us to think about such an exception so let's put it aside.
              "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



              Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

              Comment


                #22
                Re: "natural rights"

                Originally posted by Gleb View Post
                I'm for helping people as well. Every rule has an exception, though. It will take too long for us to think about such an exception so let's put it aside.
                Probably a good idea... otherwise my brain may explode!
                www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: "natural rights"

                  Lets all agree that "natural rights" is a misnomer, but I'm pretty sure that here we all understand the historical contexts of why that word is/was used. Maybe we should call them "survival rights"--the things we need as members of the species Homo sapiens, in this time and place, to survive and have a reasonable shot to thrive, in accordance with their abilities and ambition, with a minimum long term burden upon others.

                  With that in mind...


                  I think that everyone should have the absolute right to healthy food, clean water, clean air, a (stable and safe) roof over their head and clothing on their back, medicine when they are sick, the opportunity to learn, and enough room to stretch their legs and take a walk (ie. no one's "home" should be the chokey), and to do all of this without being accosted or demeaned* by their neighbor or their government. Period. Certainly, in an ideal world, no one would be ill or infirm, no one would loose a limb or become paralyzed, no one would have a mental or physical disability. In an ideal world, everyone that was able to work would be able to get a job that supported themselves and their families without sending themselves into an early grave.

                  We do not live in an ideal world.

                  And therefore, it becomes the responsibility of the soceity as a whole, whether one lives in a nomadic tribal society of subsistence farmers and hunters in the jungles of tropics or the cosmopolitan, economically stratified, ethnically diverse concrete jungles of the world's uban centers, or something in between, to ensure that those who cannot provide the very basics of mental and physical survival and opportunity for those that cannot reach for it themselves. Because we have the capacity to do so. We (particularly those of us in the developed world) have the technology, the distribution capacity and networks, and the resources that no one should die of malnutrition in Sudan or under a bridge from an easily treatable illness under a bridge in LA. Because should have enough compassion to know that hardship can and does happen to anyone, anytime, and that next time it could be our families--no matter how hard we work, no matter how much we plan. Because we should have enough pragmatism and intelligence to know that paying for these basic necessities is ultimately cheaper and more economically productive in the long run that cleaning up the aftermath later. Because we should be patriotic enough to know that how we treat the least "worthy" of our respective nations' citizens is a reflection of our stated values as a people. Because we should have enough self-interest in our perpetuity to ensure that future generations have what they need to do a better job at existence than we have. Because we shouldn't be so selfish and ostrich-like to allow ourselves or others to hoard our weath beyond what we need for our own comfort while others starve though what is ordinairly no fault of their own.

                  I also think that we should have the right to say what we want to say, do what we want to do, worship as we want to worship, travel where we want to travel, live where we want to live, act as we want to act, marry who we want to marry (or not), parent as we want to parent (or not). But these rights are not, and should not be absolute. When these rights are used to promote violence, when they are used to endanger public safety, when they are used as the excuse to accost or demean* others, then these rights should be removed from that person. Freedoms of expression are human rights, not survival rights, and while they are necessary for the function and success of a society at large, they are a product of being part of humanity. Crimes against your fellow humans may necessitate the temporary or permanant removal of these non-asolute rights...but not the absolute rights mentioned above.b


                  *and by "demean" I don't mean to criticize, offend or insult, but to subjegate or discriminate against
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X