special needs children in schools

[thalassa]

Should all children entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment?

Is this unfair to "normal" children?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: special needs children in schools

That is a hard question to answer. I worked for the school system as a transportation router and had a lot of dealings with special needs children and support requirements for them.

In some ways it is unfair to "Normal" children when their education is interfered with because of extra attention needed for the special needs students in the classroom setting. Seen some special needs children beat the crap out of other children in the classroom. Yet the special needs child often gets a different punishment or expectations based upon their disability. The normal child punished for defending themselves because they are normal. Not even counting teachers, drivers, administrators, etc that are assaulted and restricted in how they are allowed to defend themselves.

Yet special needs is so broad of a category that it really makes it difficult to address. Consider a child that is Severe and Profound with their disability compared to say a child that is Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) or a child that is ADHD which also falls up under special needs. Each requiring vastly different skill sets to know how to deal with them and how they will interact with other students. Some much easier to mainstream for educational purposes.

None of that touching upon the parental involvement or governmental requirements. Consider we had one child the school provided for that was basically catatonic and unaware of anything. Transported in a bed with a full time aide and moved from bus to class and back again. Medical condition so severe his aid was certain he had died on her a number of times and the psychological stress upon her unreal.

[habbalah]

Re: special needs children in schools

I'm going to see if I can get TurningTides to shake off her cobwebs and answer this, since it's her field. I don't have personal experience with this, but I know in a lot of "normal" schools, they cram all of the special needs kids in one room, and the kid with Asperger* is going to have way different needs than the kid with Down Syndrome. It seems unfair that they often just get put in a room with a "babysitter", rather than being taught.

*-I specifically cited Asperger because a friend of mine that is an Aspie went in depth with me about how her education was and being crammed into the same room with kids that were, say, violently disruptive. She's blindingly intelligent, and I wish she'd had the chance to get the education she deserved.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: special needs children in schools

Should all children entitled to a free and appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment?

Is this unfair to "normal" children?

Yes to the first, mostly no to the second because when resources are taken from the "normal" kids to transfer to the "special needs" kids rather than resources increased to supply the needs of ALL kids it ends up being grossly unfair to EVERYBODY, because it is in the best interests of everybody that all people get the best education they are capable of absorbing.

[Yorin]

Re: special needs children in schools

I used to spend one of my three art periods in high school helping out with the special needs student-my teacher knew I did 5 times the work for three classes even compared to only having one so she didn't mind when I sometimes disappeared to help them out since their classroom was attached to the art room. That being said-yes, yes they should be able to have their own education in the right environment. I would've loved for those kids to get more than just one single classroom shunted off to the side to get to try and learn like the rest of us. Our school district didn't have many (tiny tiny farm town) but still. Definitely not enough people capable of taking care of their needs or the best environment for them. Normal kids can get over it if they really have a problem or go volunteer to help out even just for an hour to see that there really is a BIG difference sometimes in the needs of those kids vs their needs both in education and care.

[Medusa]

Re: special needs children in schools

It's actually fair to children. Guess what chicken butt? Disabled kids grow into disabled adults. And they...like move in the real world! Gasp.

When I was young(between 3 and about forever) my nana lived on a street where the end of the block was a half way house for the mentally disabled. Young teens and adults would wander by her house on a daily basis. At a young age I saw them and interacted with them. There was one young man who would walk up to our door, go inside, and take candy from the candy bowl. All the time. And we never stopped him. Later in life this gave me a great compassion for those with disabilities. I think it gives a non disabled child a great gift. To show them how to be compassionate. It feels both good for the person and for the child giving the compassion.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: special needs children in schools

I don't think it helps to lump all children together as special needs without realising they each have different needs. A child in a wheelchair for example, might just need a ramp or a lift facility. A child with autism wouldn't need that, but would need someone to help them on a near constant basis - otherwise we end up with eight year olds being handcuffed in school by big burly policemen. A child with hearing difficulties might need some sort of loop hearing system installed or someone to sign for them.
It's not rocket science. It does cost money. And of course, money is god in western society, perish the thought we help children with it, better by far (they say) to line the pockets of big corporations and an already wealthy elite.

Disabled children do often grow into disabled adults, it's true, as the Duce says. But disabled isn't helpless. It isn't useless and it certainly isn't worthless. (And I know that wasn't what you were saying at all, Duce.)

All I want to see is a more level playing field. And when we talk about taking from 'normal' children, we have already shown exactly where our goals lie. No child is 'normal.' (nor adult, either).

A society that understands this, and helps the weakest and most vulnerable, will end up being the richest society on the planet.

[thalassa]

Re: special needs children in schools

So, the reason I asked this (I happen to agree with both Medusa and Mrs. P) is because I had commented on a news article (sometimes I'm stupid like that) and someone else responded that "parents like me" and our insistence on our children getting a free and appropriate public education (FAPE) in an least restrictive environment (LRE)--which, I might add, is the law in the US--is "damaging" the "normal" children. Except that the guy was more of a idiotic belliegerent jerk than my paraphrasing indicates.

But, before I had munchkin, I might have agreed that "mainstreaming" was a bad idea...and I still think in some cases, it can be--some kids are not going to benefit from a regular classroom enough to justify the disruption their presence causes. But an equally bad idea is what I grew up with in my school--a class where every special ed kid is stuffed together, regardless of ability, where the teacher is a glorified babysitter. Which is why I really like the kiddo's inclusion classroom (personally, I think schools should have double the staff and every classroom should have a teacher and either a second teacher or teacher's assistant--in Sharkbait's classroom, there is a teacher's aid and a special education teacher that serve both the K and 1st grade inclusion classes, with a regular classroom teacher in both...the school district here is large enough that there are entire special education schools for kids that can't be mainstreamed)...Sharkbait tests as gifted, when he's given the opportunity to take the test with accomodations (for him, that means the test is given orally in a one-on-one setting without distractions and with breaks)...in a old-school special ed class he'd be running amok and not challenged at all.

Even if we look at it from a purely pragmatic and economic standpoint--everything we know, clinically, about "less severe" disabilities tell us that early intervention is key to better outcomes later and that better outcomes later save us, the tax payer, money on that person (allowing us to use our resources for other persons)...and infact, make money, because that person is able to be a productive part of the economic machine. A little investment early on leads to greater returns later. And, tbh, this goes for ALL of education.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: special needs children in schools

So, the reason I asked this (I happen to agree with both Medusa and Mrs. P)...

And me! You forgot me!

[anunitu]

Re: special needs children in schools

WHO,could ever forget you My Friend...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: special needs children in schools

WHO,could ever forget you My Friend...

Is that good or bad...

Corbin enters a deep meditative state and ponders, communing with the spirits. 80 proof spirits, to be exact.

[anunitu]

Re: special needs children in schools

Oooooooooooooooooom....sip sip(siping meditative whiskey) OMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM my goodness that's good...sip sip...