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    Getting the most out of using sources

    Being some what of a n00b and doing a lot of research I thought I would bring up the topic of sources.

    How do you know you have a good source of information or a bad one?
    Some signs that will point me to the validity of the information?
    Good sites/books/authors you recommend?

    (sorry this is such a broad subject, but I know it would help me and all the other n00bs too!)
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    #2
    Re: Sources

    [quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=989.msg18164#msg18164 date=1290997430]
    Being some what of a n00b and doing a lot of research I thought I would bring up the topic of sources.

    How do you know you have a good source of information or a bad one?[/quote]

    Well, there are a couple things...and a lot of them are fairly similar to the same way you would tell a good source from a bad source if you were writing a paper or something. All of them have their pros and cons...

    1) Experience...really, nothing beats this. If you are well and widely read, you have a wider well of knowledge to draw upon. The downside, of course, is that to *get* that knowledge and experience, you are still going to have to read some "crap" and sometimes you will make mistakes and get suckered in to an idea that isn't so great. BUT...generally, thats be best way to learn.

    2) Check out reviews. Reviews are not foolproof...but they can (particularly if they are well written) give you some idea as to the general reception of a work, as well as the specific strengths and weaknesses of a work or an author. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, reviews are just someone else's opinion...and there is a saying about opinions being like a**holes, "everybody has one, and most of the time they stink".

    3.) Consider the source...and the subject itself. If you are reading a history of the development of Wicca, I'd dare say that a referenced, peer-reviewed work by a historian is probably the way to go (Ronald Hutton's Triumph of the Moon FTW!)...whereas, you might be more lenient in whom read for something that is more UPG oriented... Also, just because someone is a controversial figure (tries very hard to not point fingers) does not mean that they can't have good ideas (oh, I give up...some of my best "mommy magic" ideas for teaching my kids have come indirectly from Silver Ravenwolf)


    Some signs that will point me to the validity of the information?
    this article has some of the better advice I've seen on the subject

    ...there used to be another article that I would recommend, that I thought was better...but I can't find it anymore

    ETA: This is another good article on the subject, but its still not my fave one


    Good sites/books/authors you recommend?
    Really...that depends on your specific interests. I have tons of sites, authors and books I would recommend, but not without qualifying which topics I would recommend them for. There really is no Encyclopedia of Paganism that I can point you to as the end all, be all reference work.

    Once the semester is over, provided I remember, I will go thru my stuff and find the darn file that was my big giant list of credible websites and books (seriously, its like 4 or 5 pages as a word document on just about ever topic I have ever been halfway interested in).


    ETA: I really like this recommended reading list as a starting point. About a fourth of my reading list overlaps with it, if I remember correctly.

    Also...the book of books... (wait for the used copies to be cheap...I got my (now stolen) copy for like $3.00)
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #3
      Re: Sources

      You have to think about what audience you're in.

      Are you looking for highly regarded academic resources so you can one-up people in forum debates, or are you looking for something that sings to your heart? Do you want to learn or do you want to teach? Are you a beginner or are you fairly experienced?

      Unlike many scientific subjects, religion is more... subjective. Your desires and goals are going to largely color how you view what you read, hear or experience, and what you get out of a resource may not be what someone else would get out of a resource. Fer instance, I love Ralph Bloom's works on the Norse runes. Ask most other people and they'll tell you his books are crap - and, academically speaking, they are. But I'm not in it for accuracy, I'm in it because it speaks to me.

      With anything else, you have to rely on your internal b.s. meter, too. If someone tells you to go stand on your head in a rainstorm & kiss a frog to find your totem animal, would you do it? If you read in a book to go pick unspecified mushrooms in the dark of the new moon to slip into your intended lover's food, would you trust much else the author had to say?
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #4
        Re: Sources

        Also, to add, is it current?

        This seems like a no-brainer, but the net has been around long enough that there are articles around from like 2000. While that was only 10 years ago, some things (like business, technology, the economy, science) change much faster than that. So something from 2000 might be crazy outdated. I have a Human Resources Management textbook from 1995 and I'm sometimes really annoyed that that's the one we were prescribed, because in that context 1995 might as well have been 50 years ago and soooooo much has changed since then.

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          #5
          Re: Sources

          At uni we can only cite material that is peer-reviewed, meaning that it has been approved by academics; any university or academic site should be good (look for '.ac' or '.edu' in the site address). There should be some academic sites floating around on ancient cultures and such if you're wanting info on a specific people. You can even find archaeological info on gods and such.

          Failing that, any site that is well-written (i.e. nt ritten lyk thiss), has a nice layout and doesn't just lift stuff from Wikipedia should be fine. If you can tell that the owner has invested a lot of time and effort into it, it should be OK.
          Even Wikipedia is very good, I have a few pages on Germanic religion bookmarked; just remember anyone can edit Wikipedia and that from that you can be misinformed.

          Also check out the reviews for books you're intersted in on Amazon; you'll soon see if it's worth reading. And take a look at the other books that Amazon suggests for you, I found a few interesting books that way!
          "The Germans do not think it in keeping with the divine majesty to confine gods within walls or to portray them in the likeness of any human countenance. Their holy places are woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to that hidden presence which is seen only by the eye of reverence." (Tacitus, `Germania', 9)

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            #6
            Re: Sources

            [quote author=Ravenix link=topic=989.msg18288#msg18288 date=1291041647]
            At uni we can only cite material that is peer-reviewed, meaning that it has been approved by academics; any university or academic site should be good (look for '.ac' or '.edu' in the site address). There should be some academic sites floating around on ancient cultures and such if you're wanting info on a specific people. You can even find archaeological info on gods and such.

            [/quote]

            That kind of bugs me about uni to be honest. It's not usually like this in business studies, but there's still a strong bias towards academic rather than practitioner content, and to be honest I find that in business, the academic world is a little "behind" the times compared to what's actually going on in real time, so practitioner journals are useful. It's also a bit of an "american" vs "british" uni thing for that in business school. I go to a UK school and they're a bit more into the whole "tradition" of academia. Whereas US business schools (despite the fact that business school existed in the US LONG before it did in the UK) they're more interested in studying a mix of material and learning about how things work in studies combined with how people actually practice business in the real world. Some of my UK courses (like Marketing) are also better for this.

            When it comes to studying religion I'd have trouble with sticking with only academic sources as well. It's such a subjective subject matter that eyewitness accounts and stuff like that can really help understanding (just make sure the source is reliable!)

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              #7
              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                #8
                Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                Excellent article, Tylluan! I wish I had students with your perception when I was teaching college prep writing .

                In addition to all you've mentioned, it's also important to note, when using sources, that each author selected some materail to look at, and rejected other material - for one reason or another.

                Sometimes there might be an agenda behind it, other times it's simply a matter of writing a 300 page book instead of a 10,000 page book. And still other times, it's simply a matter of what information is most easily accessible. For example, if you want to learn about ancient Celts, you have archaeological evidence, some artifacts, a few inscriptions, more myths and legends, but the Celts didn't write diaries, so we'll never know what any individual Celt felt about the world in which he/she lived.

                The problems of selective evidence is as true of contemporary writing as it is of historical writing.

                An excellent example of the importance of using the most current sources possible is the "history" of the Soviet Union. While the Soviet Union was still Communist, they were very careful to control the information about internal conditions and events they released. However, after it dissolved, the government archives were opened to western scholars, and everything we (in the U.S., at least) thought we knew about Soviet history had to be dramatically revised.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                  Thank you de Corbin! The extra points you raise are excellent - I wish I'd thought of them!

                  I feel it's very important to try to evaluate the actual value of sources before using them - not all are the same, by any means. In history, ordinary people so often lived and died without leaving any trace of what they thought, believed or felt. And just as it's important to understand a source's strength, so it's important to understand its inherent weakness, too.


                  Simply saying 'I have a source' isn't enough by any means!
                  www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                  Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                    #10
                    Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                    This was such a great read! I read a similar article once regarding online sources for an anthropology course a few years ago. I wish I could find it now. So many well intentioned folks are suckered in by bad research, it's really refreshing to see something like this (I was delighted to see the academic section on this forum as well). Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

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                      #11
                      Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                      Thank you for starting this topic. I wanted to add, though, some schools of academia now suggest nothing later than 10 years for an article. However I have seen exceptions made (like with my Shakespeare paper that hurts for even the erudites to think about), but it really depends on the subject.
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                        #12
                        Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                        I like Shakespeare ... I like reading it in the Olde English ... Get more of a feel for what the author is writing about ...
                        I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                        Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                        The Chief nodded in agreement.

                        The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                        The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                        Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



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                          #13
                          Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                          [quote author=Caelia link=topic=1215.msg31011#msg31011 date=1296181655]
                          Thank you for starting this topic. I wanted to add, though, some schools of academia now suggest nothing later than 10 years for an article. However I have seen exceptions made (like with my Shakespeare paper that hurts for even the erudites to think about), but it really depends on the subject.
                          [/quote]

                          Good point, Caelia - some disciplines do require more recent research, while others will tolerate older stuff simply because there has been little new research. But whenever possible, it's a good idea to use at least some up-to-date articles.

                          [quote author=magusjinx link=topic=1215.msg31031#msg31031 date=1296189324]
                          I like Shakespeare ... I like reading it in the Olde English ... Get more of a feel for what the author is writing about ...
                          [/quote]

                          When I was in school our teachers really dislike 'original' Shakespeare and tried to make us use the Bowdlerised or 'cleaned up' version. 'Methinks he smells of horse piss' didn't go down too well in the class-room.

                          Actually, Shakespeare didn't really write in Old English, but Chaucer certainly did. I remember seeing a lovely edition of Chaucer that has one page in the original and the other with a more modern version for comparison.
                          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                            #14
                            Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                            [quote author=Tylluan Penry link=topic=1215.msg31059#msg31059 date=1296202297]
                            When I was in school our teachers really dislike 'original' Shakespeare and tried to make us use the Bowdlerised or 'cleaned up' version. 'Methinks he smells of horse piss' didn't go down too well in the class-room.[/quote]

                            My favorite example of Thomas Bowdler's work in cleaning up Shakespeare comes from Hamlet. Two characters are talking about poor Ophelia, and one says "She plays the strumpet in bed." Bowdler changed the nasty word "strumpet" to the innocuous word "trumpet," making Ophelia seem far crazier than she actually was ;D .

                            The English teacher's joke about filthy Shakespeare is that the students always miss the really dirty stuff, and laugh at the stuff that isn't actually dirty. When we used to read Romeo and Juliet, the whole beginning dialogue dealing with "cutting of maidenheads" goes past the kids, but they laugh when Lord Capulet says "Bring me my sword, ho!" ...no, he's not calling his wife a whore...

                            I was just reading about some Roman emperors - in the section on Nero, the author indicates that much of what we think we know about the terrible Nero is based on some pretty slanderous work by four authors who opposed him - there is some serious revision going on about what kind of guy he actually was.

                            It's kind of like basing an appraisal of President Bush' time in office on Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 911, despite the fact that Michael Moore has been so thoroughly discredited that nobody takes him seriously any more.
                            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                              #15
                              Re: Getting the most out of using sources

                              All very true, de Corbin! One of the most telling things about Nero is the throwaway comment (off the top of my head not certain where it comes from - could be Suetonius???) that for many years after his death people always brought flowers to his grave. I found that rather touching.

                              As for Ophelia playing the trumpet in bed..... Bowdler has a lot to answer for!
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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