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    Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

    Everyone here has probably encountered at least one person who just shits all over a tradition's beliefs and practices simply because they're anti-religion. They're typically pretty ignorant about the religion but don't want to learn a thing about it, they don't want to discuss the merits of said beliefs and practices, and they certainly aren't interested in seeing things from the perspective of practitioners. It's usually a waste of time and energy to engage with them because they dismiss everything you have to say specifically because you are religious and that makes you "stupid."

    The best way to deal with people like this is usually to ignore them, but that's not always easy. As much as I try to avoid these kinds of people, I seem to keep running into them both in the outside world and on the internet. I never engage with anyone like this unless I know them personally and think they might actually listen to me. However, even though I ignore other people who do this, I almost always find myself dwelling on what they say or write, feeling angry and frustrated that they're going out of their way to shit all over a religion that typically has nothing to do with them (with obvious exceptions to issues like abortion, where religious people have tried to push their beliefs on others) but is very meaningful and important to that religion's followers.

    I feel even worse knowing that I can't do anything about these situations. For example, I happen to follow a very scientifically-oriented Facebook page that normally posts hilarious and informative things about food and medicine. However, they recently started mocking anything to do with chakras because they apparently think that chakras are stupid and harmful to "believe in." At first I liked their posts that criticized overpriced snake oil type products that claimed to cure diseases by cleansing the chakras, but then they started mocking things like pendulums - which, as far as I know, have nothing at all to do with food or medicine and are only used for pagan and New Age spiritual practices.

    The moderator commented that the pendulum looked like a butt plug and a string of anal beads, and asked if it would cure colon cancer if you shoved it up your ass. Charming. All of the comments that followed were equally ignorant and I knew immediately that I would be ripped to shreds if I criticized the post or dared to suggest that some people find working with their own chakras to be psychologically or spiritually beneficial. So I didn't comment and decided to stop following the page if I see another post like that. However, I still felt frustrated and found myself doing that thing where you keep yourself up at night thinking of all the things you could have said. :/

    How do the rest of you deal with the frustration of encountering ignorance and anti-religion people and not being able to do anything about it? Do any of you have the same problem of dwelling on these situations, and have you found a way to let go of the anger and stress that builds up after seeing it constantly?

    #2
    Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

    Like you said, it's not always easy. The best you can do is to ignore them. Once they realize they are being ignored, they'll start getting annoyed themselves.
    In my experience, a person asked for proof of a higher piwer's existence but refused to accept any kind of theory. I can't explain everything but I am certain that religion and science don't oppose each other but back each other up...

    Those who wish to hurt are/were hurt by someone else. So maybe the people you encountered didn't have much luck with religion practitioners.
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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      #3
      Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

      Just to let you know...atheists get this all the time as well. Pretty much people suck.
      Satan is my spirit animal

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        #4
        Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
        Just to let you know...atheists get this all the time as well. Pretty much people suck.
        Yes, it's just a matter of case, don't you think? There are atheists who don't mind religious people and there are theists who don't mind atheists.
        "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



        Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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          #5
          Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

          Originally posted by sea-salt View Post
          How do the rest of you deal with the frustration of encountering ignorance and anti-religion people and not being able to do anything about it? Do any of you have the same problem of dwelling on these situations, and have you found a way to let go of the anger and stress that builds up after seeing it constantly?
          Learn to let go.

          It's the only way to deal with things that you can't change.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

            As in the thought "If I can do nothing to change it,it id NOT my problem"
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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              #7
              Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

              I just feel sorry for their ignorance. That way you turn the page without allowing it to vex your spirit in any way.
              If most of these people had an energetic experience they would identify it within their ignorance. It would be a "miracle" from God, an act by Satan, or something unreal or coincidental.
              Most people don't analyze their experiences the way that some Pagans do. They just put them into the neat little folders of their belief system. I guess we do the same thing but I do analyze events and then decide if they belong in a folder or the trash. I have a lot more folders than most people.
              The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
              I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                Originally posted by Gleb View Post
                Those who wish to hurt are/were hurt by someone else. So maybe the people you encountered didn't have much luck with religion practitioners.
                That's a fair point, but most of the anti-religion people I've ever encountered focused entirely on the Abrahamic religions, since they're the most widespread and their followers are the most likely to try to convert people or make laws based on their moral codes. It never surprises me when people lash out against pushy Christians - and I used to be a pretty big Christian-basher myself until a few years ago - but I have a hard time believing that these people have had similar experiences with Hindus, Buddhists, pagans, or members of other non-Abrahamic religions.

                What reason would they have to mock the beliefs and practices of religions that have nothing to do with them? I have to assume that these people started with a (possibly justified) distaste for one or two religions, and then assumed that every other religion must be equally harmful or stupid. I think that's why this bothers me so much and I have trouble letting it go; ignorant people are being assholes based on assumptions about religions that don't affect them in any way. It just doesn't make sense to me.

                Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                Just to let you know...atheists get this all the time as well. Pretty much people suck.
                Trust me, I know. I considered myself something between agnostic and atheist for several years, and 3 of those years were spent at a Catholic high school. That was torture to say the least, but once I got to college I found it pretty easy to dismiss atheist-bashing religious people because I had no "beliefs" for them to attack and they were always the minority at my college, so they weren't really a threat to anyone. The religion-bashers aren't necessarily a threat, either, but I was never irritated by stuff like this when I was non-religious. The anti-religion attitude is also very, very prevalent in most of the communities I belong to, so it can be hard to get away from.

                Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                As in the thought "If I can do nothing to change it,it id NOT my problem"
                I was thinking about this all day at work and I already feel less annoyed about these people. I'm a pretty chill person and I don't normally dwell on little things or worry about matters that aren't my business, but for some reason the religion-bashers I've met lately have completely gotten under my skin. Maybe it's because I feel some sort of responsibility to educate them so they won't talk shit anymore? Well, it definitely isn't my problem if they're ignorant and choose to remain that way, so I'm going to have to remind myself of that in the future.

                Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
                I just feel sorry for their ignorance. That way you turn the page without allowing it to vex your spirit in any way.
                I agree with this too. I certainly feel bad for people who think meditation is stupid (even though they've never tried it) and complain about stress in the same breath... :=L:

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                  #9
                  Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                  I think an anti-religious attitude is just as harmful as fundamentalism. It's the same attitude, just placed in a different context. It's the 'I'm right, you're wrong and you can't change my mind" kind of thinking.

                  The middle ground is tolerance. It takes a lot of self-acceptance to get there because you have to have enough sense of self-worth to refuse to play by their rules and stand above their judgments. Their judgments do not reflect on you who you are, it shows who they are.

                  I can understand why this is annoying for you because it seems these people aren't open to evidence, they just enjoy the power of creating an 'out' group. You will never get through to them as a group because they have already set up their group identity and the group sticks together! The only way to get through is to have genuine non-judgmental conversations between friends one-to-one.

                  If you have a place of belonging you can retreat to without the judgment, then you will find you can withstand. I know there are religious scientists out there (my friend is one), so I hope you find some like-minded people with whom you can discuss ideas openly.

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                    #10
                    Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                    Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                    I think an anti-religious attitude is just as harmful as fundamentalism. It's the same attitude, just placed in a different context. It's the 'I'm right, you're wrong and you can't change my mind" kind of thinking.

                    The middle ground is tolerance. It takes a lot of self-acceptance to get there because you have to have enough sense of self-worth to refuse to play by their rules and stand above their judgments. Their judgments do not reflect on you who you are, it shows who they are.

                    I can understand why this is annoying for you because it seems these people aren't open to evidence, they just enjoy the power of creating an 'out' group. You will never get through to them as a group because they have already set up their group identity and the group sticks together! The only way to get through is to have genuine non-judgmental conversations between friends one-to-one.

                    If you have a place of belonging you can retreat to without the judgment, then you will find you can withstand. I know there are religious scientists out there (my friend is one), so I hope you find some like-minded people with whom you can discuss ideas openly.
                    I absolutely agree that these kinds of anti-religion people behave just like fundamentalists. Most of them avoid making personal attacks or targeting individual people for their beliefs, but I have seen more than a handful who condemned religious people with just as much energy and certainty as the Westboro Baptist Church condemns my fellow gays.

                    And like many fundamentalists, many anti-religion people also tend to be smug and condescending to religious people. I'm sure that attitude of superiority contributes to their need to differentiate themselves from the "deluded sheeple," and they put those people down as much as possible to prove that they're "above" believing in old-fashioned superstitions.

                    Fortunately not all of them are quite that bad. Many, particularly on the Facebook page I mentioned, simply know nothing about things like chakras or pendulums and can honestly say "I don't get it" without bashing a religion or the people that follow it. Those people might be more open-minded to learning, but it's probably hard to branch out if you're part of a big group with lots of anti-religion people (or perhaps just a few very loud anti-religion people). If I was in that situation, I would expect backlash from the group, and that might be enough to kill my curiosity about an unfamiliar religion.

                    Returning to this forum and checking out a bunch of pagan blogs has made me feel a lot better recently because it reminds me that I'm not alone and I'm not the only one who has had to learn how to deal with crap like this. Seeing positive, uplifting writing about paganism and various traditions has really helped me focus more on my own spiritual practice rather than focusing on negative people. The negativity does sometimes manage to creep in, though, which is why I made this thread.

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                      #11
                      Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                      Sometimes ignorance runs in both directions at the same time.

                      Sometimes it is worth listening to people with whom one disagrees, just to broaden one's thinking.

                      Sometimes one learns from one's enemies.

                      Sometimes bashing people - even those one does not agree with - goes two ways.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                        If religion is being pushed by another person and they tell me that if I don't convert I am damned, it tells me that they joined their religion out of fear. If they tell me their god loves me I remind them that he loves them too. When speaking of the Creator(s) it doesn't matter what name is used because it is the same being. Peoples perceptions are different and their canon and dogma vary but ultimately all religions, with a couple exceptions, recognize a Creator. Most recognize, in some form, that there are many aspects of that creator and many more thought forms that have been given the power of gods.

                        Those who believe that overwhelming evidence exists to deny the existence of any gods are in a wonderful position. Most are as well educated as Pagans but they lack the "need" for an intelligence that began it all. They do not believe in myth. That is OK, Our mythology of creation is probably wrong, not that it matters because the myths will change as the truth is revealed. Those who are agnostic, simply see little evidence of god's existence but the have an open mind. Open minds are wonderful things.

                        We pagans have various myths about the creation and different beliefs about evolution. Our views change (evolve) as we learn. Our view of gods, great and lesser, frighten those who don't understand. Christians and Muslims, by their religions edicts, must do away with those who do not believe the way they do. They must either convert or kill those of different faiths. Most Christians feel the need to convert or save us but they are unaware that we typically know more about their faith than they know about ours. We have chosen our faith because it brings to us a real connection to the Creator that was not available elsewhere. We have gods and goddesses, aspects of the creator or the offspring, that provide a personal connection between us, our work, our play, and deity.

                        Those who would convert or kill in the name of religion are fanatics that don't see the larger picture. They don't realize that despite our differences we are the same, in more ways than we are different. I pity those with such a small view of the Creator that they place limitations upon it.
                        The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                        I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                          #13
                          Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                          Strangely my mothers concern that I belong to her choice of religion(SDA) was about HER salvation as she considered if she could not get me back in,then HER status with GOD would be in Jeopardy. I always thought that kind of weird,as I believe each is part of their own connection to THEIR god of choice. I just feel I am not responsible for your spiritual life,as you are not responsible for mine.
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                          sigpic

                          my new page here,let me know what you think.


                          nothing but the shadow of what was

                          witchvox
                          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                            Anunitu,
                            I really wanted to save you and your immortal soul but instead I think we will just have a party when we find each other in the afterlife.
                            The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                            I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Ignoring the ignorant and letting go of frustration.

                              First star to the left,and straight on till morning...Bring some mead and a little fairy dust..
                              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                              sigpic

                              my new page here,let me know what you think.


                              nothing but the shadow of what was

                              witchvox
                              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                              Comment

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