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Don't Stay in School?

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  • Don't Stay in School?



    Have you all seen this? (^u^)

    I wish this wasn't as true as it was for my education. I remember, and it remains true, that a lot of the things I learned in primary and secondary, and even a lot of courses in university, were not things which were going to be regularly, or even rarely, applicable within my life. The things that would have been very useful and relevant were not taught.

    How about you all? Did your education have a similar experience? How should we reform our education systems to properly train and educate future generations to be able to have a proper knowledge about life, and not abstract concepts that they won't apply in life?

  • #2
    Re: Don't Stay in School?

    Canadian kids have mandatory law classes, where the bill of rights and U.N. human rights are covered. Current events are covered in civics and law, and as far as I know most kids in high school know pretty good law.

    Source: Nephew.
    White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
    sigpic
    In Days of yore,
    From Britain's shore
    Wolfe the dauntless hero came
    And planted firm Britannia's flag
    On Canada's fair domain.
    Here may it wave,
    Our boast, our pride
    And joined in love together,
    The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
    The Maple Leaf Forever.

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    • #3
      Re: Don't Stay in School?

      I learned a good number of those things in school, and the ones I didn't learn in school, I learned from my parents or (because I had a good education and parents that valued and encouraged education and knowledge) through self study. Additionally those "abstract concepts " are things you use later in life, not necessarily directly, but in the application of knowledge and problem solving towards the every day act of living. Information does not exist in a vacuum, and ideas from one area have meaning by in others more often than not, even if the seem unlikey.
      “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

      “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
      ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

      "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
      ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

      "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

      Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      • #4
        Re: Don't Stay in School?

        I would prefer not to have an education where I learned only those things which are directly applicable to utility or a job.

        That seems so very, very empty.

        98% of my daily thought and entertainment is not directly related to life's necessities or my job. I am so much more than those two things. I would be so much less if I hadn't had a broader education.
        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        • #5
          Re: Don't Stay in School?

          There seems to be a culture that willful ignorance is "cool" and almost desirable. People don't seem to care what is going on or things that is not inside our immediate perspective. That's really sad and highlights why eduction is truly important. Having a well rounded education raises a child's chances for success and stability in the future.

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          • #6
            Re: Don't Stay in School?

            This sort of problem is the result of a one size fits all, cookie cutter ideology of education, that is only assessed value on results of standardized tests. In the USA it feels like more people are concerned with the manner children are being taught more than what is actually being taught.

            Can't really complain to much about my education. However, I think we need a more open timeline for kids to be educated. I'm being honest in saying that I was not mature enough for college, once I washed out of that. Picked myself up and was ready I was to far behind. Catching up is difficult.
            “A lifetime may not be long enough to attune ourselves fully to the harmony of the universe. But just to become aware that we can resonate with it -- that alone can be like waking up from a dream.” - Br. David Steindl Rast

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            • #7
              Re: Don't Stay in School?

              My education was very hit or miss, depending on the teacher.

              My math teacher taught us why these abstract concepts were important, not just to memorize them. I had some great English teachers who went above and beyond the curriculum, and others who taught straight to the test.

              My first official sex ed class was in 10th grade, which was also when my ROTC class covered basic first aid. My government class never went over how to apply laws to your life, pretty much only checks and balances and how to memorize the constitution.

              I think that there needs to be a class, starting young, for basic incident response (how to react in situations), first aid, and so on. More of the curriculum needs to emphasize how this will apply to your life, because either the teachers fail to impress that on the students, or the students are too naive to connect the dots.
              “I am Cat and I walk alone and all ways are the same to me.” ~Rudyard Kipling, The Cat Who Walks By Himself

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              • #8
                Re: Don't Stay in School?

                Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
                Canadian kids have mandatory law classes, where the bill of rights and U.N. human rights are covered. Current events are covered in civics and law, and as far as I know most kids in high school know pretty good law.

                Source: Nephew.
                In BC, we didn't have mandatory law classes, but social studies covered all of those topics. We had to take social studies until grade 11, and after that it was split into non mandatory geography, history, law, and economics classes for grade 12. I think it's still pretty similar.

                But yeah, I learned most of that in school, and what I didn't learn, my parents taught me. I'll also second what thalassa said...abstract concepts are very important in a lot of ways. Maybe you'll never analyze one of Shakespeare's sonnets and write an essay on it in real life, the ability to critically assess something is extremely important, and doing that Shakespeare analysis stuff teaches you that.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                I would prefer not to have an education where I learned only those things which are directly applicable to utility or a job.

                That seems so very, very empty.

                98% of my daily thought and entertainment is not directly related to life's necessities or my job. I am so much more than those two things. I would be so much less if I hadn't had a broader education.
                I agree with this so wholeheartedly.

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                • #9
                  Re: Don't Stay in School?

                  I think most of the standard education in the USA does an ok job teaching critical thinking. And, imo, parents could teach a lot of the practical stuff. But the modern approach to education, from middle school on, doesn't leave time for that. In school 7-8 hours a day, 1-2 hours minimum on extra curricular activities, an hour or so of homework per class. It's too much. And that's the biggest problem.
                  We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

                  I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
                  It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
                  Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
                  -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

                  Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Don't Stay in School?

                    A major problem with teaching job skills is that, by the time a student graduates, most specific job skills will be obsolete. Not things like showing respect, working as a team, being on time, etc., but the specific skill needed to do a job.

                    The solution is to teach those things that don't go away, to teach students how to learn so they can update skills, to teach them how to articulate thoughts and ideas in a comprehensible manner, and to teach them how to be rational citizens.

                    Unless it has to do with sex or evolution, in which case teaching them to be idiots seems currently stylish.
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Don't Stay in School?

                      In 8th grade, I didn't do well in Algebra so I took Basic Math, where we learned how to balance a checkbook, etc. That was the most valuable math class I ever took. (I made up Algebra in summer school and got an A, because I was able to focus exclusively on it.) Young people need preparation for the real world. My parents didn't teach me anything at all about life skills. Many parents don't. No training is required to be a parent, but it is to become a teacher, so make the most of it.

                      There are few career spots for people who think outside the box. For every Bill Gates, there are millions who go unrecognized. Shoot for the stars but have the skills to remain Earthbound.
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                      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Don't Stay in School?

                        The schools in the USA have all switched over to "Common Core" educational standards. They do not teach critical thought, they teach that getting along with the majority is more important than personal excellence. They teach approximations instead of math so that 1+1 can equal 1 to 3. In language arts they teach that all forms of communication are the same and that all understandings of that communication are acceptable. So if the class has a story read to them and are told to write about the meaning no matter what a student writes it has the same value as the student who writes an accurate synopsis.

                        I sat through a semester of classes in the second grade with my grandson and I was dumbfounded by the lessons taught and the results. Then there is grade averaging. All the students get the average grade of the entire class. It is not based on individual achievement or even on a curve. They take all the grades from everyone in the class and divide it by the number of students and that is the grade that everyone gets.

                        Since the National board of education took over the curriculum and the grading process the schools are just brainwashing stations for good little citizens who will do exactly as they are told. The education in primary schools today is a travesty and we need to return to local controls over the curriculum and all aspects of education.
                        The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                        I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Don't Stay in School?

                          Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
                          The schools in the USA have all switched over to "Common Core" educational standards. They do not teach critical thought, they teach that getting along with the majority is more important than personal excellence. They teach approximations instead of math so that 1+1 can equal 1 to 3. In language arts they teach that all forms of communication are the same and that all understandings of that communication are acceptable. So if the class has a story read to them and are told to write about the meaning no matter what a student writes it has the same value as the student who writes an accurate synopsis.
                          Wow. I wish somebody would have sent me that memo, it would make my job so much easier.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Don't Stay in School?

                            Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                            Wow. I wish somebody would have sent me that memo, it would make my job so much easier.
                            Don't know about the common core stuff outside of math. Yet I do know more than a few teacher's who've given up that profession due to the stuff that is being put in, especially regarding Standards of Learning (SOL) testing. A fair amount who've said they no longer taught anything that wasn't on the test to make the numbers look good. Even going so far as to dedicate weeks or more to test preparation at the expense of actual material they think should have been taught. Haven't seen it first hand yet but hear history and sociology classes as starting to get selective in what is taught and how it is taught.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Don't Stay in School?

                              Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                              Don't know about the common core stuff outside of math. Yet I do know more than a few teacher's who've given up that profession due to the stuff that is being put in, especially regarding Standards of Learning (SOL) testing. A fair amount who've said they no longer taught anything that wasn't on the test to make the numbers look good. Even going so far as to dedicate weeks or more to test preparation at the expense of actual material they think should have been taught. Haven't seen it first hand yet but hear history and sociology classes as starting to get selective in what is taught and how it is taught.
                              One of my university friends graduated with a teaching degree and refuses to teach since our state adopted the common core.

                              I do know that a year or two ago, our state rejected CC, but then this year it has adapted "Tennessee Core" which seems to be pretty darn close to CC. Between last year and this year, my second grader went from being challenged in his classes to essentially he's now advanced because the reading and spelling are so similar to last year.

                              For example, they have a passage they were supposed to read each night, pronouncing each word correctly, and the adult was to help count how many words they read in a minute. (Disclaimer: I don't have the actual numbers in front of me, so this is an estimate). The number by the end of the year is roughly 150-170 words correctly per minute, my son is already around 180-195. The school year is only a few months in.
                              “I am Cat and I walk alone and all ways are the same to me.” ~Rudyard Kipling, The Cat Who Walks By Himself

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