Gender rights

[Medusa]

*oh Satan, let this thread not burn in infernal hellfire*

What rights are given to men that are not given to women?
What rights are given to women that are not given to men?

Talk gender rights in general.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Gender rights

Given by law, or given in practice? They may be two different things, and discussion may get confused...

[thalassa]

Re: Gender rights

Given by law, or given in practice? They may be two different things, and discussion may get confused...

This.

Also where? My rights as a woman in a 1st world Western civilization are much different than those of a woman in, say, Saudia Arabia.

I can drive and show my arms in public.

[Medusa]

Re: Gender rights

Pick whatever one you want. Just start listing what you think are male and female rights. Where you are. At this moment in tiiiiiime.

[anunitu]

Re: Gender rights

This.

Also where? My rights as a woman in a 1st world Western civilization are much different than those of a woman in, say, Saudia Arabia.

I can drive and show my arms in public.

Points and shouts at Thal...Woman!!!,you showed your arms????????!!!!!!!...goes for the box of killing stones

[thalassa]

Re: Gender rights

Legally, in the US of A in 2015, there aren't many "rights" that men get that women don't get by law...but implicitly by culture and societal mores...inequalities abound (though its not really a matter of "rights", but of not honoring "rights").


No one tells a man what to do with his plumbing other than "don't stick it where its not wanted" and (a slight variation) "don't wave it around in public".

If an actress has a kick*** role in a movie she's portraying a "strong woman", but if a man has a kick*** role in a movie he's just a man.

When I tell a dude what to do (because I'm his boss), I'm a *****, when a dude tells a dude what to do, he's "assertive" and "showing good leadership".

Women spend twice as much time doing housework, even when both partners work.

As a woman veteran, its harder to get a job (seriously, look at unemployment for women vets) because the assumption is that you are crazy twice--once for being a vet (PTSD or MST) and once for having joined in the first place

"...worldwide at least one in seven homicides (13.5%) are committed by an intimate partner, with partners responsible for 38.6% of all female homicides compared with just 6.3% of male homicides" sauce

When my husband takes off work because the kids are sick, he gets told "Why can't your wife do that?"

If a man gets assaulted, no one asks what he was wearing or whether or not he let the person doing the assaulting buy his drinks.

Pundits don't tell men that the biggest mistake of democracy was allowing them to vote.

Its a-okay to be a SAHM, but not a SAHD.

No one implicitly or explicitly tells a little boy that wants to be a scientist or the president that they are the wrong gender.

No math teacher told my brothers "Its okay that you don't get this, you're just a boy"

When I was in the military, I overheard a guy tell my (then) boyfriend (now husband) that if he was a real man, I'd be doing the dishes (and the rest of the housework).

When I had to go to the VA for medical care, I frequently got asked where my husband or father is. I've been called to the front dest as Mr. ______.

Mens sports get way more money that womens sports

Women usually get custody, even when they suck as mothers.

Alabama hospitals don't test new daddies for drugs.




...I could keep going, but eventually I'd hit the carachter limit. And don't get me wrong, this isn't exactly FGM or getting beaten for showing your face in public or getting shot for wanting to go to school...but it still sucks.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Gender rights

Women quite obviously have them a worse hand in the poker game when it comes to gender equality but I get annoyed with some of the societal expectations of men sometimes.

Like why the hell do I have to open the door for you? I don't get it. Whoever gets to the door first should just open the damn door. Why do I always have to pay for dinner? I always pay for dinner. When are one of you girls going to buy me a dinner!? Why do we even have to pay for each others dinner? Can't we just pay for our own dinner? Does that change anything? No.

My complaints sounds pretty pathetic. Women getting abused at higher rates, under constant attack from the Right, and the gender pay gap meanwhile I'm bitchcing about opening doors and buying dinner.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Gender rights

I lifted a 10kg box yesterday. I had a coworker INSIST that he lift it, and when I refused, he told me that 'ladies these days' were too tough.

TEN KILOGRAMS. To prove a point, I lifted it one handed above my shoulder and stared at him, and then told him to stop referring to me as a lady.

I can throw around 80lbs boxes. Don't try to tell me 10 kilos is too heavy for me.

...other than that, I've just spent my whole life working in a man's industry. And you know what? It has gotten better. But it's still not perfect.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Gender rights

Speaking of physical work an interesting tidbit for today-the unsupported speed record for the Pacific Crest and Appalachian Trails are held by a woman. The overall speed record for the Appalachian was held by a woman until this year.

I would also wager that a higher percentage of men than women drip off the A.T. and don't complete.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Gender rights

I find the gender norms really get confused when you cross into areas usually dominated by the opposite gender. It's like being a male then going into an office type environment that is normally seen as administrative and dominantly women. That was an eye opener regarding how you were viewed. But nothing compared to the eye opening that went down regarding women dogging women and cutting each other down. Sort of the same mentality you see in education when males go into primary education and have younger children in classes that are normally seen as being mostly women. Grades PK to about 3rd seem heavily female, then it becomes more balanced. Yet once you cross into the administrative side such as principle, asst. principle it seems it unbalances. College level I think was more driven by school and credentials it brought to the school vice strictly male or female.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Gender rights

It's hard to say if some things are due to gender inequality or due to differences in gender - are there more women who go into k-6 education because they prefer to work with younger kids, or are they herded there?

In medicine, you will find more women choosing pediatrics (75% female), and obstetrics/gynecology (85% female). Is that because they prefer to work in these areas, or because they were shuffled into them?

[Shahaku]

Re: Gender rights

Women don't have to sign up for the draft and can't join certain parts of the military (Thal?)

The woman is less likely to be sent to jail in a domestic dispute, even if she gave as good as she got. And is also more likely to be left with the children even if she's just as drunk/high.

We still have gender inequality all over the workforce (certain jobs being gender stereotyped, pay scale inequalities, etc)

There is still a belief that women can't be the aggressor in sexual crimes (not blantantly stated but, hell, what kind of guy is going to admit to being raped by a woman right?)

Men are still seen as weak for showing emotion or for ^ sort of thing.

Women are more likely to receive alimony in a divorce, even if they don't need it, or their income is equivalent to their husband's.

Men get the short end of the stick in just about every divorce proceeding. Period.


To TPM:
In the early years of our dating (me and my husband) we were in high school and I typically paid, because I was allowed to have a job and he wasn't so I typically had money and he didn't. I never let him open doors for me, cause I was perfectly capable. And I've always pulled my own weight. I help carry in the groceries, help lift the heavy stuff when we move, etc. As a poly triad, whoever happens to have extra and offers typically pays for date nights. I might pay for drinks at karaoke night one week, then the hubby pays for dinner out the next week, then the gf pays for the movies. Whoever pays decides what we're doing. Shrug.

[thalassa]

Re: Gender rights

Women don't have to sign up for the draft and can't join certain parts of the military (Thal?)

True. Most of this is societal. Yes, there are fewer women that *can* do some of these jobs (our bodies are built differently) but they still don't get much of a chance (this is slowly changing). In the Navy its just subs (though this is currently changing) and SEALs--there are a *few* ships that are all male (except a few officers) but they are a far and few between.

And when women do jobs that are typically done by men, its been both my personal experience and observation, that if we want to be taken seriously, we have to do twice as much work, twice as well as the best man there. Any sign of weakness and you become one of "those females". Only the former sailors will get this, but I was a deck seaman my first 19 months in the Navy--I was one of 3 people assigned to do pin and bail for ancoring ops on a big deck amphib...the other two guys were big buff dudes, and I shoved around just as much weight as they did.


And, as a mom, I'm going to give an observation...My daughter adores wildlife. No creature is ugly, gross, etc. She will pick up anything she knows not to be poisonous. Spiders? No problem...they tickle. Snakes? Give great massages when you hold them. Slugs, worms, etc? COOL!! SLIME!!! But over the summer, she learned from another little girl and her brother that girls aren't supposed to like these things, that they are "gross" and a girl that likes them is "wierd" and "not really a girl". So, we've had a bit of confidence to gain back... But imagine that this little girl that loves snakes and spiders and slime doesn't have me for a mom... And boom, we've just enforced a gender stereotype and stopped a little girl from being that scientist or (for the girl that loves math) engineer or physiscist or...

[DanieMarie]

Re: Gender rights

Like why the hell do I have to open the door for you? I don't get it. Whoever gets to the door first should just open the damn door. Why do I always have to pay for dinner? I always pay for dinner. When are one of you girls going to buy me a dinner!? Why do we even have to pay for each others dinner? Can't we just pay for our own dinner? Does that change anything? No.

My complaints sounds pretty pathetic. Women getting abused at higher rates, under constant attack from the Right, and the gender pay gap meanwhile I'm bitchcing about opening doors and buying dinner.

To be honest, I don't think they do. And you know, a lot of feminists are on your side. We don't want dudes to feel obligated to buy us drinks/dinner or open doors for us either, because it implies we're weaker.

It will get there eventually. In Germany* and the Netherlands, splitting the bill is common practice (there's a reason it's called "going Dutch"!)

*Not that Germany is always a role model for gender equality. Women still have the short end of the stick here.

- - - Updated - - -

And, as a mom, I'm going to give an observation...My daughter adores wildlife. No creature is ugly, gross, etc. She will pick up anything she knows not to be poisonous. Spiders? No problem...they tickle. Snakes? Give great massages when you hold them. Slugs, worms, etc? COOL!! SLIME!!! But over the summer, she learned from another little girl and her brother that girls aren't supposed to like these things, that they are "gross" and a girl that likes them is "wierd" and "not really a girl". So, we've had a bit of confidence to gain back... But imagine that this little girl that loves snakes and spiders and slime doesn't have me for a mom... And boom, we've just enforced a gender stereotype and stopped a little girl from being that scientist or (for the girl that loves math) engineer or physiscist or...

Oh man, this so happens. My mom was a lot like you in that regard. She really didn't want me to be all like "ewwwww spiders," so we used to go look at spiders and snakes and things when I was little. Where I grew up, we don't have any venomous species, so she wanted me to learn that they're harmless. I used to chase the other girls with snakes.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Gender rights

From what I'm told, it's still as it was in the 80's when it applied to me, that a man of legal age can get a vasectomy regardless of marital or parental status, but a woman seeking tubal ligation will be told she'll change her mind, etc. Regardless of what she says, or what she's willing to sign. Yes, Dr.'s exist who will do them, but not in everyone's insurance plan or nearby area.