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Thread: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

  1. #11
    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    I have a good friend who is Catholic, who wanted to tell me Catholicism was more right than Orthodoxy, who said that transubstantiation was a very real part of Catholicism when we discussed the topic.

    Transubstantiation is the belief that by the power of God, the substance of the bread and wine have literally been changed to flesh and blood respectively whilst retaining their appearance. In Orthodoxy, they prefer not to think they can explain the Eucharist but rather call it a 'mystery' (there are something like seven mysteries in Orthodoxy, the bonding of two in matrimony is another). Some say it is consubstantiation, that the bread and wine becomes flesh and blood but also remains bread and wine, coexisting. This is not the doctrine, though, and most Orthodox priests will just say "we don't know exactly in what sense it becomes the flesh and blood, but it does."

    The idea that it is symbolic is a purely protestant idea. Same for baptism and the other mysteries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    I was taught in Catholic primary school that it was symbolic, not reality. That we were partaking of the essence of Jesus in order to strengthen our faith and connection with God.
    What Catholic sect was that? Usually schools are connected with a monastic order of sorts.

  2. #12
    Bronze Member magusphredde's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Well since I don't believe in it either way I will let y'all figure it out ... I do believe I will check the crock pot ... Slow cooking corned beef so I can make fresh corned beef hash for breakfast tomorrow ...
    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


    Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

    The Chief nodded in agreement.

    The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

    The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

    Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."




  3. #13
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
    Should have added this. But that's the thing. Transubstantiation means that it is reality, not metaphor.
    Strictly IMHO - the greater mass of humanity is not very good at grasping symbols & metaphor, they lust for concretes, and so convert every subtly nuanced use of symbol and/or metaphor into the item of their desire - a "description of real things."

    In trying to make things clear, people become confused (that sounds so Zen ). Catholic theologians are as subject to this as much as anybody else...
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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  4. #14
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    So,bacon is really a holy thing then besides being tasty.?????
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    So,bacon is really a holy thing then besides being tasty.?????
    Only to pigs, who are, in fact, cannibals.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  6. #16
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    I was taught in Catholic primary school that it was symbolic, not reality. That we were partaking of the essence of Jesus in order to strengthen our faith and connection with God.
    I learned at CYO that it was a "representational metaphor" and that the literal part came from the spirit of Jesus's body and blood being in the bread and wine.

    This was because I made a joke about Jesus being a man made of bread (this was the same day that the priest in charge pulled me aside and thanked me for coming even though I was neither Catholic nor Christian because he thought that having this exposure to other ideas and having to answer them was both good for his personal faith and for that of the other kids...aparently some of the parents had complained).
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  7. #17
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Reminds me of an incident in my youth when I flipped off a priest..his hand was where it should not have been...(Inner city youth was I)
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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    Bronze Member Munin-Hugin's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    I sort of feel that when I was growing up and being made to go to Sunday School (aka CCD), we didn't have the cool priests or teachers who would allow "out of the box" type questions. If someone asked one, the generic response was to be told that "you're just being silly" and then the class was redirected back to whatever it was that was being discussed. So I never got the answers to the "silly" questions that I had, and stopped asking them all together. I'd have to say that even then at a young age was when I started feeling disenfranchised with the whole thing, though I tried because it was what I was supposed to do.

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    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
    I sort of feel that when I was growing up and being made to go to Sunday School (aka CCD), we didn't have the cool priests or teachers who would allow "out of the box" type questions. If someone asked one, the generic response was to be told that "you're just being silly" and then the class was redirected back to whatever it was that was being discussed. So I never got the answers to the "silly" questions that I had, and stopped asking them all together. I'd have to say that even then at a young age was when I started feeling disenfranchised with the whole thing, though I tried because it was what I was supposed to do.
    I'd say you appear to be infringing on the copyright to the story of my life but it appears you are older than me. Still. Story of my life.

  10. #20
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
    I sort of feel that when I was growing up and being made to go to Sunday School (aka CCD), we didn't have the cool priests or teachers who would allow "out of the box" type questions.
    This seems really wierd to me...because this is completely the opposite approach in both my family and in the church I was raised in.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

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