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Thread: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

  1. #21
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    This seems really wierd to me...because this is completely the opposite approach in both my family and in the church I was raised in.
    I have mixed experiences as a Catholic - young, being taught by nuns, you bought what you were told or got a wampin'.

    Later, in the late 60's in Sunday School, the nuns encouraged discussion. I imagine that time and locality have big effects on these experiences, even within a specific denomination.
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    In the Catholic faith the priests hands are blessed (consecrated) in order to perform the right of changing the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Whether it is considered an act of magik or a miracle is probably part of the reason that so many other Christians believe that Catholicism is a cult and not a Christian religion. There are more reasons for this but the Catholic faith requires one to believe that it is truly the body and blood of Christ.

    Is it cannibalistic to eat the substance of one's god? When He commanded it? I don't have the answers and I spent eighteen years growing up a Catholic. My mother was Catholic and my father was a convert. I was never a very good Catholic because the leap of faith that was required was too great. Being Pagan and the process of initiation taught me in a way that that leap of faith could be made small enough to take. All religions require a leap of faith at some point. If you had proof there would be no need of faith.

  3. #23
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    My Grandmother is a Southern Baptist and Grandfather is Church of Christ, and I've got an Aunt who is Nondenominational, and I spent every Sunday growing up in either my Nan's church or with my Aunt. I was not allowed to share the last supper until I was baptized because I could not understand the sacrifice of what was made and it was considered a sin. For them it is not metaphorically speaking either. They do believe it is the actual blood and body of Christ. As for the reason why they do it I think it goes with accepting his gift and sacrifice. I can ask my Nan. She would have no issue explaining to me. Hmmm I might just do that.
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  4. #24
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Briton View Post
    What Catholic sect was that? Usually schools are connected with a monastic order of sorts.
    Erm... I'm not sure. I was a kid and we moved away when I was twelve. I remember that Mary MacKillop (who was in the process of being canonised when I was there, which has since been completed) was a big deal. Our principal was a nun, and some quick research tells me that she was Sister of St Joseph... though I'm not sure whether the 2-3 nun teachers that we had were also Josephites. We had two priests and I remember the younger one had spent a lot of time as a missionary in Papua New Guinea and he was... really fun and a bit out there.

    I'm not sure if it was just my school, but my experiences in Catholic primary school were not at all like a lot of the stories I've heard from other countries and from older generation Aussies. I never went to Sunday School, but we studied the religion as a subject and regularly had classes taught by Father Eugene himself.

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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Catholocism is rather large and by virtue of that, you run into some Catholics operating one way in one area and others operating differently somewhere else. I've yet to come across a priest or nun that I actively dislike but I also haven't gone out of my way to have theological debates with any of them.

    I did know a priest who had



    framed when we found it online and printed off a copy for him.
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    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

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  6. #26
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    I learned at CYO that it was a "representational metaphor" and that the literal part came from the spirit of Jesus's body and blood being in the bread and wine.

    This was because I made a joke about Jesus being a man made of bread (this was the same day that the priest in charge pulled me aside and thanked me for coming even though I was neither Catholic nor Christian because he thought that having this exposure to other ideas and having to answer them was both good for his personal faith and for that of the other kids...aparently some of the parents had complained).
    I was taught basically the same thing that Thal has said here. So obviously it wasn't an explanation isolated to just my school/church.

    The Holy Eucharist was all very serious... you didn't partake if you hadn't undergone the full rites (Baptism, Confirmation, Reconciliation and First Eucharist), and it was a sacred and profound process. It wasn't like 'oh, this is just a symbol, here have some bread'... but we weren't taught that it wasn't bread anymore and that we were literally eating Jesus' actual flesh... it was bread and wine imbued with Jesus' spirit and made MORE than bread and wine. Partaking of it was to partake of Jesus himself, not by eating HIM, but by taking his essence into you.

  7. #27
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    I do like the loophole of funerals though. In a Catholic funeral everyone gets to eat the Christ! Happened at my father's funeral. I was raised Roman Latin Catholic. Which pretty much meant we were Catholics and then throw in some hard core Hispanic magic. My nana had an altar full of saints I was to dust daily (til I broke St Francis's foot off) and she also had one of these in her bedroom:



    I also had the traditional blond lady gaurdian angel over my bed:


    And on the other wall this:
    Satan is my spirit animal

  8. #28
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
    So what is the actual difference between magic and miracle, and cannibalism and taking part of the Holy Communion ritual?
    Interesting question. I had a look online and there was a term I was unfamiliar with here: http://itsjustdave1988.blogspot.com....arist-not.html The bread and wine are called 'accidents' meaning
    Accidents = (1) a nonessential property or quality of an entity. [Merriam-Webster] (2) things whose essence naturally requires that they exist in another being. Accidents are also called the appearances, species, or properties of a thing. These may be either physical, such as quantity, or modal, such as size or shape. [Fr. John Hardon, Modern Catholic Dictionary].
    So essentially, the Eucharist is metabolised as bread and wine, but hold the supernatural substance (or true nature) of Jesus' body and blood. So for example you could say here is a square (the true nature/substance) that's purple (purple being the 'accident' or non-essential quality). For Eucharist, you would say here is the body and blood of Christ which is bread and wine.

    It doesn't really make sense because it seems like a game in bad grammar and semantics, but there you have it.

    Maybe transubstantiation isn't the same as transmutation. A better example of transmutation would be when Jesus turned water into wine (John 2:1-11). There was a miracle that everyone noticed and didn't have to take it on faith. I took the Eucharist once in Catholic church for school and was politely asked not to do so again. It smelled like wine, it tasted like wine and that "bread" was like licking sticky cardboard. At the wedding feast when the gospel report Jesus turning water into wine, the water literally became wine - there was no mistaking it. It sounds like in transubstantiation, the metaphysical qualities are changed, but in transmutation, the physical aspects are changed.
    Last edited by Azvanna; 28 Oct 2015 at 21:15. Reason: added bible reference

  9. #29
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    but we weren't taught that it wasn't bread anymore and that we were literally eating Jesus' actual flesh... it was bread and wine imbued with Jesus' spirit and made MORE than bread and wine. Partaking of it was to partake of Jesus himself, not by eating HIM, but by taking his essence into you.
    This--that its not literally blood and meat of a 2000 year old dead (resurrected) guy, but that it is the spiritual essence of the blood and body of the YHWH-as-man.

    Which comes to the whole one ousia in three hypostases thing (aka the Trinity)--one divine essence in three bodies...they are all "God" because god is the ousia, but the imagery of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the three...lets call them incarnations (but not in the reincarnation sense) (maybe avatar is a better description) (maybe manifestation) of the ousia. When you take communion, the bread and wine become of that ousia (the divine essence) and become spiritual manifestations of the blood and body of Jesus.

    This is different from most Protestant traditions, where the blood and wine are generally thought to be symbols of Jesus (but may run the spectrum between this *purely symbolic* view and the one above). Either way, its no more odd than anything Pagans do.
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  10. #30
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: Cannibalism and Magic in Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post

    And on the other wall this:
    Necromancy!

    But can someone tell me about this image?

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