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    Ghosts

    What kind of role do ghosts have in your worldview? How do you define a ghost? Do you work with them or similar entities?
    baah.

    #2
    Re: Ghosts

    What kind of role do ghosts have in your worldview? How do you define a ghost? Do you work with them or similar entities?
    For me, a ghost, as the spirit of a dead person does not make sense. When a person dies, there is nothing left to flit about in the dark.

    But that does not mean that something, which we refer to as a "ghost," doesn't exist. There may be other things that are not specifically related to human life/death that exist.

    There are things out in the dark that might fill the bill of "ghosts," and I observe but don't "work" (if "work with" means use) with them.

    I just want to figure out what they are, or (at least) what characteristics they have.
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #3
      Re: Ghosts

      If I could figure out how to get them to work I'd never wash another dish.

      Anyway, there sure is something. I think there are probably many somethings that get lumped together as ghosts simply because we don't understand what's going on and "Ghost" is a good catch-all word for spooky things we don't understand. Sometimes it is like an echo, other times like a bleed through, other times like active intent. Dominguez's book Spirit Speak goes into a fair bit of detail if you are trying to sort things out.

      "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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        #4
        Re: Ghosts

        My beliefs are similar to Corbin's in that I don't think the human soul gets left behind after death. I've told this story here a few times, but JP has seen the ghosts of both grandmothers, both of who are still living. I too have heard the jingling keys of a tenant while she was in an induced coma in hospital. As I was telling a colleague about it the following morning, it happened again and the lights flickered off for a second, so I even have a witness!

        I think there is probably no single explanation for ghosts, but rather a few different mental or spiritual phenomena produce ghost-like apparitions.

        So I believe people who say they've seen ghosts, I just don't think they're trapped souls. I do think the dead can make contact, but they do so in much more subtle ways.

        In my opinion, the only trapped souls are those trapped in a body that doesn't fit them...
        夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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          #5
          Re: Ghosts

          I believe a person has both a spirit and a soul. The soul is what goes on to be reincarnated. The spirit is what's unique to you, and it's what can end up staying behind.

          Personally, I'm terrified of ghosts. I've been told a few times that I can probably speak with them, but I refuse. I talk to my grandpa, who recently passed away, at his grave site, but I've never heard a reply back, because I keep that door closed. I've only heard a voice once any time recently (my friend's grandmother on her wedding day), but that's it.
          Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

          Honorary Nord.

          Habbalah Vlogs

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            #6
            Re: Ghosts

            I find my thoughts and feelings on this subject pretty difficult to express well to be honest.
            I think maybe that there are different kinds of ghosts?
            Or that they come through in different ways in different circumstances, perhaps - I dunno, I'm not too sure...

            When I was 10, I was visiting my Nanna's house one school lunch time, as I often did, and a Police man suddenly ran out of the door, and crossed the road in front of me, as I came towards her front gate from down the road.
            When I knocked on the door and she let me in, I asked her about the Police man, giving her the description of him as I had seen him, red curly hair, and bushy ginger beard, and she went as white as a sheet and told me it was "happening again"...
            She explained that there had been a time when an officer was chasing a villain, and in those days, they didn't shut their doors much, the guy had bolted in, and hid in their coal cellar under the stairs.
            As the Bobby approached, the criminal sprang out and attacked him with an iron bar in an attempt to avoid capture, and he had fallen down in the hall way with a nasty head wound, fitted badly, stopped breathing, and passed over while waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
            Nanna told me quite a few people had seen him flee the scene like that before... she showed me an old newspaper report... yes, it was the same man! From 9 years before I was born.

            I also had a near death situation once in 1975 when I was quite young, while I laid in my hospital bed feeling neither here or there, I KNOW I was with my GrandMa who had passed over in 1972.
            We were in a kind of void-like oblivion place together, it was very dark, and quiet, and warm, but a bit drafty... or was it static electricity, I can't be sure, anyways, I could see her hair moving around her head a bit... and that she "sent me back" because my time wasn't up yet.

            Then I have these... er, moments or happenings... where very strange stuff just goes on around me... and others have seen it too, so I know I'm not imagining it...
            I might find an object suddenly falls at my feet from out of nowhere, for instance, or the television might suddenly skip channels to show me something "they" (whoever that might be) think I need to see, or I might get the urge to pick up the phone and they are on the other end of it saying something, or I might feel a nudge that moves my position in time to avoid something that might otherwize have hurt me, I might have things thrown at me from across the room, or feel poked or prodded, I might get splashed with water (when there's none near by) I might find an object that meant a lot to somebody suddenly put in a place "they" know I will find it when I know it was put well away and nobody has been in, or whatever... let's just say, they make their meanings seen, heard, felt, witnessed and so on... and it can be quite shocking at times. Comforting at others too,

            I don't feel as if I can answer back 9 times out of 10 so I don't try, besides, there's usually no need. It's not a conversation inviting replies, it's a pointing something out, or just a saying Hi, perhaps making the unknown revealed to me, and so fourth... Protecting me. Guiding me. Saving me.

            I don't make any big fancy claims about being able to communicate with the passed over at will as it were, I don't get to start anything, it just happens.

            Like I said, difficult to explain really.

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              #7
              Re: Ghosts

              For me "Ghosts" are simply impression left upon an area. I suppose I hold that perspective because of the paranormal slant I used to have on things and how we identified various "Encounters". I tend to use other terms and identifiers for various situations and things encountered. Those include Poltergeist, Specter, Apparition, Revenant, etc as well as ghost.
              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                #8
                Re: Ghosts

                What kind of role do ghosts have in your worldview? How do you define a ghost? Do you work with them or similar entities?
                I think of a 'ghost' as being the spirit of a deceased person which is able to reach past the boundary between this world and the next. They are perhaps an impression left by the person, or perhaps an apparition of a person whose spirit is properly resident elsewhere. I lean towards the latter, as Hellenistic belief is generally that the spirits of the dead go directly to Hades' hall.
                Then again, occasionally in folklore and practice, the idea comes up of 'paying the ferryman' at the river between the mortal world and the underworld. What were to happen if one could not pay up? Does the spirit or soul get left behind to wander?

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                  #9
                  Re: Ghosts

                  Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
                  I think of a 'ghost' as being the spirit of a deceased person which is able to reach past the boundary between this world and the next. They are perhaps an impression left by the person, or perhaps an apparition of a person whose spirit is properly resident elsewhere. I lean towards the latter, as Hellenistic belief is generally that the spirits of the dead go directly to Hades' hall.
                  Then again, occasionally in folklore and practice, the idea comes up of 'paying the ferryman' at the river between the mortal world and the underworld. What were to happen if one could not pay up? Does the spirit or soul get left behind to wander?
                  That I think would be how a Restless Dead was created. Figure it wasn't just those who couldn't pay Charon but also those who didn't have the proper funeral rites and such. Perhaps even falling into the Hunt and driving of the dead that is associated with the Hekate lore and her hounds baying in the night.
                  I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                    #10
                    Re: Ghosts

                    In most cultures a distinction is made between the free soul, an immortal spirit, and the body soul, an animating force. At death the latter usually dissipates, but it may continue for a while. The free soul will only make an appearance after death, to say goodbye or request action. I think that makes sense to me.

                    John Greer classified hauntings as
                    (1) transitional ghosts, "saying goodbye", and (2) purposeful ghosts; both would be free souls.
                    (3) graveyard specters (short-term) and (4) entity hauntings (long-term); both would be persisting body souls.
                    (5) replay hauntings, where a sequence of events can be seen repeating (e.g. on old battle-fields), with no sense of an individual presence that you'd get in (4). Those I can't explain, unless they are just multiple examples of (4).

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                      #11
                      Re: Ghosts

                      We can also understand ghost phenomena as perceptual experience that, while perhaps often having something to do with the dead concept, is in fact a function of the living, not the dead. It could be an important function none the less.

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                        #12
                        Re: Ghosts

                        Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                        In most cultures a distinction is made between the free soul, an immortal spirit, and the body soul, an animating force. At death the latter usually dissipates, but it may continue for a while. The free soul will only make an appearance after death, to say goodbye or request action. I think that makes sense to me.
                        I like this concept! I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but I've recently become acquainted with what I'm calling my 'body spirit'. Because I believe in the concept of everything having its own unique spirit, it makes sense to me that my physical body had its own spirit too, that is very closely connected to my thinking soul, but still separate. It's not a massively different concept. When I die, I'll separate from my body spirit, and it will return to the All as my body is broken down.

                        This concept is pretty central to my spiritual life right now in fact.
                        夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Ghosts

                          I'm reviving this mainly because I don't want to annoy anyone by starting a new one but also because I want to add some questions to this one to continue the discussion further. Besides come on, Ghost and paranormal phenomena is interesting.


                          1.) Ghosts, demons, angels and the like.. what is your opinion on them? As in what do you believe they are if you believe in them at all.

                          2.) Do you think it wise to commune with these entities? Why or why not, be it morally or faith based.

                          3.) Considering the many films and TV series about this phenomena do you think it has a negative impact on the contacting of these entities?

                          4.) How do you factor in reincarnation into this, if at all?

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                            #14
                            Re: Ghosts

                            1.) Ghosts, demons, angels and the like.. what is your opinion on them? As in what do you believe they are if you believe in them at all.

                            No idea. They don't really fit into my concept of spirit, but I see them (sort of, it's more of an impression, or something caught out of the corner of my eye) and witness their activity, so I accept them as a 'thing', but take them at face value.

                            2.) Do you think it wise to commune with these entities? Why or why not, be it morally or faith based.

                            I talk to them. They never answer. They do seem to be aware of me but it could be in my head. I recently hung a little witch in my kitchen in honour of my new-found interest in cooking and ever since (or maybe it started before.. I only later linked the two things and can't remember when the first sighting was), there has been an old woman with white hair standing in the kitchen. I spoke to her, nicely, and she didn't do anything at all. Just kept standing there. Ghost? Spiritual entity summoned by the charm? Thought form? Dunno. I'll keep talking, because it's in my nature not to shut the f*** up, but I don't think it so much unwise, as just pointless.

                            3.) Considering the many films and TV series about this phenomena do you think it has a negative impact on the contacting of these entities?

                            Possibly. Because I believe that we ultimately determine how 'spirit' behaves, it stands to reason that our expectations of what something is will affect how it manifests. That said, in the case of ghosts I think there are too many people scared of ghosts, who never actually go on to experience one, that this theory doesn't hold much water.

                            4.) How do you factor in reincarnation into this, if at all?

                            My belief is that the spirit is just one continuous blanket of energy. It remembers everything, from every life. Like a spiritual Internet. If you 'ghougle' (yeah, I mixed ghoul and google) your uncle George, you get your uncle George. When we're born, we are animated by this spirit. We remember past lives not because we personally lived them, but because we ALL lived all of them. There's a reason there are so many Elvises! ^^

                            Okay, my opinions aside.. here's a little ghost thingy for you..

                            One of my colleages has asked to be transferred to another house. She's not the first either. She's very, very scared of ghosts, and the house I work in has a long history of weird goings on. I love its energy and feel very attached to the building, but others get spooked. This poor girl has been working for us for about 4 months and she heard a few stories. This made her start asking everyone. Of course, we have a few shared stories because a lot of these goings on are witnessed by more than one person if they happen during day-shift hours (we night staff work alone while a colleague sleeps up stairs), so if she heard a story from one witness, she wanted to hear it again from someone else.

                            She came to me, because a lot of staff mentioned the things that happen on nightshift, but instead of feeding her more stories, I tried to comfort her. She was terrified at having to do the sleep-in and I told her that no one has ever seen or heard anything in the sleep-in room, and (although I don't know I believe this) I told her that people who are scared of ghosts don't allow themselves to see them so she'll be fine. I told her over and over that no one has ever been harmed, and that they're just unexplained phenomena, not conclusive proof that the dead walk amongst us. She went to bed and seemed okay.

                            Then on her next sleep-in, she ended up so scared that she stayed awake downstairs all night. The girl who was on the nightshift that night shouldn't have let her.. I'm sure I wouldn't have because I know what would happen... exactly what DID happen. The girl heard the mysterious footsteps on the stairs, she heard the knocking on the walls, she saw the weird flashes of colour. All the things she was scared of and hoping were just stories, seemed to happen all at once. So much so that my colleage, who is used to these things on nightshift, ended up scared herself.

                            Why don't people just listen to Jemma and GO TO BED!!!

                            So yeah. This girl has refused to do any more sleep-in shifts, and has applied to be moved to another house. Head..desk...
                            夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Ghosts

                              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                              1.)
                              Okay, my opinions aside.. here's a little ghost thingy for you..

                              One of my colleages has asked to be transferred to another house. She's not the first either. She's very, very scared of ghosts, and the house I work in has a long history of weird goings on. I love its energy and feel very attached to the building, but others get spooked. This poor girl has been working for us for about 4 months and she heard a few stories. This made her start asking everyone. Of course, we have a few shared stories because a lot of these goings on are witnessed by more than one person if they happen during day-shift hours (we night staff work alone while a colleague sleeps up stairs), so if she heard a story from one witness, she wanted to hear it again from someone else.

                              She came to me, because a lot of staff mentioned the things that happen on nightshift, but instead of feeding her more stories, I tried to comfort her. She was terrified at having to do the sleep-in and I told her that no one has ever seen or heard anything in the sleep-in room, and (although I don't know I believe this) I told her that people who are scared of ghosts don't allow themselves to see them so she'll be fine. I told her over and over that no one has ever been harmed, and that they're just unexplained phenomena, not conclusive proof that the dead walk amongst us. She went to bed and seemed okay.

                              Then on her next sleep-in, she ended up so scared that she stayed awake downstairs all night. The girl who was on the nightshift that night shouldn't have let her.. I'm sure I wouldn't have because I know what would happen... exactly what DID happen. The girl heard the mysterious footsteps on the stairs, she heard the knocking on the walls, she saw the weird flashes of colour. All the things she was scared of and hoping were just stories, seemed to happen all at once. So much so that my colleage, who is used to these things on nightshift, ended up scared herself.

                              Why don't people just listen to Jemma and GO TO BED!!!

                              So yeah. This girl has refused to do any more sleep-in shifts, and has applied to be moved to another house. Head..desk...
                              Where do you work? This sounds epic!


                              I grew up in a haunted house, and one bathroom in the old building of my middle school was haunted by the bathroom ghost. Which was really annoying because she was just replaying her drowning death again and again and again when all we wanted/needed to do was pee. So we would have to go find another bathroom whenever she was in there. So that wasn't an animated ghost, just a recording.

                              'So it's a ghost. So what?'

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