Communism!

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Communism!

Actually, in the UK, the only person to own the land is the Queen. Even if we think we own our own home, it's still on land belonging to HM.

That said, my big beef is that the government can frack under our homes, whether we like it or not. In the past it was the same with mines and beneath my own home are miles and miles of mine workings, most of which were never even properly mapped.

Large companies start open cast mining - make a big profit and an even bigger mess, and then they just bugger off.

Oh, and the Severn Bridge. Don't even get me started on that.

[Briton]

Re: Communism!

What's worse is that it's not the government doing it, otherwise we might in done way benefit from the damage done. Rather permission is given to businesses to undergo a form of energy creation which had very little research into the side effects.

I think the worst thing of all is that they convince many of us that we live in a democracy. Our MPs do not represent us in votes in Parliament, they represent themselves. Constituents should be allowed to make their MP vote Yes or No on any issue, such as the bombing of Syria.

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I watch a youtube channel called American Homesteading. They live on a piece of land they own. They built their home there. They are just now in the process of running water to their sink. Before that it was just her going to their well every day for water for basic consumption.


Which is great.

Our oppressive government allows me to walk to my kitchen, turn a little handle and get hot water instantly.

YOU have the choice of getting water or not. The govt just says, here. Here is water. Thanks.

We have to pay a private company for water or you get letters through the door. Nobody should be making a profit over water. It should be a public' resource that covers cost, with some safety net costs, not making a board of directors wealthy from my need for water. I pay this tax for the water, not their yachts.

I've watched a few of those episodes, the guy is quite objectionable in my opinion.

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Call it a shed or "outbuilding," and, where I live, no more permits (I live in farm country...).

Here that only works if the shed takes up less than a certain percentage of garden space which was allocated garden space since one of the years in the 1970s and is under a certain height. Bureaucracy at its finest.

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(I used to work at a planning consultancy until earlier this year)

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Communism!

Oppression is an amount of control that supersedes the rights and freedoms of natures "law".
What is "natures law"? I look to the animal kingdom to understand that which is "inherent to life".
Animals defend their life and the lives of their group. They defend their territory (land). They answer only to the accepted authority of their group and are free to challenge and change that authority at any time. They are allowed to be self sufficient or to work together in groups without interference.
From this I attest that we have the right to self defense and the defense of those around us. We have the right to defend our property which assumes the right to private ownership for humans. We have a right to learn and express our opinions involving any subject and the responsibility to allow others to do the same. We have the right to travel freely from one place to another so long as we do not intrude on the property or rights of others. We have the right to be self sufficient without the fear that others will take what we use to that end. Since we have a right to protect our property we must be free from unwarranted search by any authority as that would be a violation of our property. So long as no others are "injured" we should be free to do what we wish. (Injury can be infringing on the rights of others or adversely affecting their ability to live in the manner they choose.) Regulation of actions and property are unnecessary so long as those actions and property do not adversely affect the actions or property of others directly.
On taxes; Taxes are a way to remove ownership and should never be applied to property, private or personal. Taxation should be only on those services supplied by the existing authority or community and based on actual costs for those services.

True communism does not require or have a place for government. It is simply a group of people working together to live in harmony. The problem with communism is that, like Jamestown, when people realize that they will be supported, by the group, even if they don't contribute they will stop working. At one point in the short history of the Jamestown colony less than a third of the population was actively working to support the entire colony. When the food and other commodities that supported life were distributed equally among the residence people began to starve, sicken and die. Wholly more than half the population died the first winter. After that catastrophe it was decided that if people did not contribute they would not be fed. It was established that people could have personal ownership of land and what they harvested. The harvest was no longer communal property. Communism had failed because the people took the easy way out. This was a strongly committed group with a single religious belief operating under a consensual form of law. It was the "ideal" communistic approach to life. That life failed and was replaced by a communal republic that incorporated free enterprise as a "financial" system. It prospered after a short learning curve that involved the actual crops that were farmed and the animals raised.
There has never been a truly communist country because communism removes the need for government and countries require a government. Native tribes live a communal lifestyle but even they have a governing body that makes decisions for the group.

[Medusa]

Re: Communism!

Do any of us know real oppression? I mean, look at us.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Communism!

I can't buy a new car. I am sooooooo oppressed.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Communism!

A lot depends on how we define oppression. Tacitus for example, in Agricola, has a memorable quote that he attributes to Calgacus (often said to be Welsh, by the way ) :

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a wasteland (some translate it as desert), they call it peace. (from the end of chapter 30)

And the famous quote much earlier in the book (from Book 1) : Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset.
(the most concise translation is: Because they didn't know better, they called it "civilization," when it was part of their slavery. )
Often it's translated as : Step by step they were led to things which dispose to vice, the lounge, the bath, the elegant banquet. All this in their ignorance they called civilisation, when it was but a part of their servitude.

[Briton]

Re: Communism!

Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being suppressed!

[Medusa]

Re: Communism!

We should ask some people to tell us what it's like to be oppressed.
Oh wait. Their government controls the internet.
But obviously we are way more oppressed. I only have like 4 options of internet to choose from. Well maybe 6.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Communism!

How about drowning an entire village in Wales in order to provide water for England?
The wounds of this particular bit of oppression (and I'm sorry, I still don't know what else to call it) are still pretty raw. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34528336

[anunitu]

Re: Communism!

That my dear Mrs Penry is so oppressive that I tip my virtual hat to you and Wales.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Communism!

Oppression for the hillbillies was being evicted from their property many had held since the early 1700's along the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia to put in a national park, ie Shenandoah National Park. A number of families were carried out of their homes and then the homes burnt to keep them from coming back in. Other's moved forcefully to resettlement areas that looked upon the mountain's that had been their homes. All to make an area the residence of Washington, D.C. could drive to on the weekends basically. Sad part is parts that were taken were not used in the park and instead of being offered back to the displaced residents were sold to the highest bidder.

Today many graveyards, homesteads, business sites, etc are all ruins basically. Some families still allowed to visit their family graveyards but most have to pay in some capacity to gain entrance to do so. Those of us who have family homestead ruins but do not live on the fringes of the park still have to pay to visit where our ancestors are buried. A very open wound for many of the families.

[thalassa]

Re: Communism!

How about drowning an entire village in Wales in order to provide water for England?
The wounds of this particular bit of oppression (and I'm sorry, I still don't know what else to call it) are still pretty raw. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34528336

I'm not saying that oppression hasn't happened, or that governments and corporations and other institutions don't continue practices that are unfair to individuals in certain communities, businesses, or groups (the continued treatment of the poor, Native Americans, African Americans, and other minorities in this country is appalling). I'm just saying that for all the people that complain about how they are being oppressed, I have yet to have an expansive list of all the things one would like to do right now and cannot do as a result of this oppression. There are absolutely injustices in our systems--the people that run them are flawed and biased human beings (as are the people that use them) and some systems are less well developed to prevent abuses than others.

And WE are ALL responsible for this failure.

But, if you can pray without being arrested, peacefully protest without being executed, write an editorial without being tortured, travel without molestation from government forces, go to school without fear of being kidnapped, then I don't think you are being oppressed. Treated unfairly, dealt with unjustly, discriminated against, etc...yes....but truly oppressed--most of us living under contemporary Western governments have no idea what actual oppression is.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Communism!

Oppression for the hillbillies was being evicted from their property many had held since the early 1700's along the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia to put in a national park, ie Shenandoah National Park. A number of families were carried out of their homes and then the homes burnt to keep them from coming back in. Other's moved forcefully to resettlement areas that looked upon the mountain's that had been their homes. All to make an area the residence of Washington, D.C. could drive to on the weekends basically. Sad part is parts that were taken were not used in the park and instead of being offered back to the displaced residents were sold to the highest bidder.

Today many graveyards, homesteads, business sites, etc are all ruins basically. Some families still allowed to visit their family graveyards but most have to pay in some capacity to gain entrance to do so. Those of us who have family homestead ruins but do not live on the fringes of the park still have to pay to visit where our ancestors are buried. A very open wound for many of the families.

The SNP is pretty much a travesty. Skyline Drive is an ugly scar through the wilderness. While I am glad the wilderness is protected it could have been done in a far better way and without turning the region into a wilderness Disneyland full of tourists, resorts, and stores. I hiked the SNP this year during my through hike and it was the least enjoyable part of Virgina.

The same thing also happened with the creation of the Smokey Mountain National Park. Imminent Domain was used in a small part in Tennessee during the creation of the Appalachian Trail. The locals hate hikers so much I encountered hand written signs on trees letting us know how unwelcome we were. Services were also refused to us in a few locations in Tennessee.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Communism!

The SNP is pretty much a travesty. Skyline Drive is an ugly scar through the wilderness. While I am glad the wilderness is protected it could have been done in a far better way and without turning the region into a wilderness Disneyland full of tourists, resorts, and stores. I hiked the SNP this year during my through hike and it was the least enjoyable part of Virgina.

The same thing also happened with the creation of the Smokey Mountain National Park. Imminent Domain was used in a small part in Tennessee during the creation of the Appalachian Trail. The locals hate hikers so much I encountered hand written signs on trees letting us know how unwelcome we were. Services were also refused to us in a few locations in Tennessee.

Sad part is lots of the SNP are re-grown wilderness vice actual wilderness areas. A great many of the mountains were vast orchards, farms and open fields on the lower slopes. Some of the higher slopes were forested but if you look at old photo's there was a lot of cleared land that was allowed to go back wild. Today it is maintained for tourist and ease of access more so than natural conditions. Granted it's illegal to take plants, artifacts, etc from park lands today but very little of the once natural beauty or early homestead artifacts are to be found to give clues of what life up there was like.

Imminent Domain has been used quite a bit in Virginia in places. Though it doesn't get played up much when it's used to obtain land for state sponsored universities for instance or take land for so called betterment projects.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Communism!

That my dear Mrs Penry is so oppressive that I tip my virtual hat to you and Wales.

Don't get me started on Aberfan...