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    #76
    Re: Evil

    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Context matters.
    I completely agree, and would even argue that context is everything when it comes to judging anything as absolute as 'Good' or 'Evil'. Obviously, many acts or situations are deemed 'evil' or 'wicked' or other such terms to anyone with some measure of common sense. But I'm sure I don't have to elaborate on the fact that many attempts to do 'Good' in the world end(ed) up being detrimental or harmful to others, thus showing even the term 'Good' is entirely subjective. Many of the things we perceive as 'evil' today are, in my belief and opinion, the result of an immensely long line of action and reaction, choices and consequences that can barely still be recollected over the centuries.

    But I'd like to go back to the fact that most people with common sense can tell when a situation is 'wrong', or at least 'not right', and for me, there comes the question of 'Does absolute Good and Evil exist?'
    Now, this is a bit of a trick question I feel, since you could begin putting forth every object or living creature in an argument and pose 'Is this good/evil?', which is a rather lengthy way of answering the question. What we -can- perhaps have a look at is 'Does absolute Good and Evil exist within ourselves, within humankind?' When individual morality has so many different layers and shades of gray, and is influenced so heavily by what we see around us, by friends and family, media, beliefs, etc. -- how can there exist an absolute in morality? When our views on the world, eachother and ourselves change as we grow and experience life, can our inner being be labelled by just one word? If you ask me, I would say no, and I would say anyone claiming themselves to be the incarnation of either moral absolute is a liar.

    Lastly I'd like to put forth this quote from the original post:
    Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Today I spoke to my friend on the phone and we have a long discussion of evil in the world. He also mention that evil is winning so far and pretty soon the world will be destroyed.
    To this day, I still find it highly troubling that so many people that hold their faith so high, and claim to believe in the pursuit of what is the 'absolute Good' (forgive me if that's an assumption in the case of quoted friend), have such an obsession with the end of the world. This perception of 'evil is winning', is in my opinion nothing more than nature taking it's course. Why? Because I believe mankind is, in truth, still a large group of primates who fight over territory, who fight for their 'tribe', with popularity contests of who gets to lead and manipulate, and an endless cycle of everyone trying to get what they want. We are still monkeys, essentially. And wether we will eventually find some sort of unison, or if the monkeys with dangerous toys end up making the wrong decisions, well... only time can tell, really. I certainly can't tell you anything with absolute certainty, but at least I won't claim to.

    Comment


      #77
      Re: Evil

      Originally posted by Owlsongs View Post
      I completely agree, and would even argue that context is everything when it comes to judging anything as absolute as 'Good' or 'Evil'. Obviously, many acts or situations are deemed 'evil' or 'wicked' or other such terms to anyone with some measure of common sense. But I'm sure I don't have to elaborate on the fact that many attempts to do 'Good' in the world end(ed) up being detrimental or harmful to others, thus showing even the term 'Good' is entirely subjective. Many of the things we perceive as 'evil' today are, in my belief and opinion, the result of an immensely long line of action and reaction, choices and consequences that can barely still be recollected over the centuries.

      But I'd like to go back to the fact that most people with common sense can tell when a situation is 'wrong', or at least 'not right', and for me, there comes the question of 'Does absolute Good and Evil exist?'
      Now, this is a bit of a trick question I feel, since you could begin putting forth every object or living creature in an argument and pose 'Is this good/evil?', which is a rather lengthy way of answering the question. What we -can- perhaps have a look at is 'Does absolute Good and Evil exist within ourselves, within humankind?' When individual morality has so many different layers and shades of gray, and is influenced so heavily by what we see around us, by friends and family, media, beliefs, etc. -- how can there exist an absolute in morality? When our views on the world, eachother and ourselves change as we grow and experience life, can our inner being be labelled by just one word? If you ask me, I would say no, and I would say anyone claiming themselves to be the incarnation of either moral absolute is a liar.

      Lastly I'd like to put forth this quote from the original post:

      To this day, I still find it highly troubling that so many people that hold their faith so high, and claim to believe in the pursuit of what is the 'absolute Good' (forgive me if that's an assumption in the case of quoted friend), have such an obsession with the end of the world. This perception of 'evil is winning', is in my opinion nothing more than nature taking it's course. Why? Because I believe mankind is, in truth, still a large group of primates who fight over territory, who fight for their 'tribe', with popularity contests of who gets to lead and manipulate, and an endless cycle of everyone trying to get what they want. We are still monkeys, essentially. And wether we will eventually find some sort of unison, or if the monkeys with dangerous toys end up making the wrong decisions, well... only time can tell, really. I certainly can't tell you anything with absolute certainty, but at least I won't claim to.
      What do you mean "moral absolute?"
      "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

      "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

      Comment


        #78
        Re: Evil

        Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
        What do you mean "moral absolute?"
        Something that is entirely 'Good', for example, and uncorruptable. Or something that is wholly 'Evil', without capacity of empathy and compassion. Both extremes of our constructed perception of morality.
        I'm guessing you refer to 'anyone claiming themselves to be the incarnation of either moral absolute is a liar.', with which I mean anyone claiming to be 'Good' or 'Evil', to put it simply.
        Though as I said, I don't claim to have all the answers, and I could be proven wrong with an exception, who knows.

        Comment


          #79
          Re: Evil

          Originally posted by Owlsongs View Post
          Something that is entirely 'Good', for example, and uncorruptable. Or something that is wholly 'Evil', without capacity of empathy and compassion. Both extremes of our constructed perception of morality.
          I'm guessing you refer to 'anyone claiming themselves to be the incarnation of either moral absolute is a liar.', with which I mean anyone claiming to be 'Good' or 'Evil', to put it simply.
          Though as I said, I don't claim to have all the answers, and I could be proven wrong with an exception, who knows.
          Hmm, interesting. Not sure why people would think they were the incarnation of either.
          "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

          "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

          Comment


            #80
            Re: Evil

            Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
            Hmm, interesting. Not sure why people would think they were the incarnation of either.
            There are many different and strange people in the world, I'm sure one of them is delusional enough (people claiming to be Jesus reborn, to give an extreme example). But perhaps I'm overdramaticizing the use of the word 'incarnation', as I simply mean to say that I don't believe anyone -could- claim either moral extreme believably for themselves. Thus providing perhaps a snippet of evidence towards saying 'there is no Good or Evil within mankind', then again I like to play devil's advocate and ask 'Would we know it when we see it?'. Which makes us come back to the topic of everyone's individual moral perspective on certain subjects.

            Comment


              #81
              Re: Evil

              Originally posted by Owlsongs View Post
              There are many different and strange people in the world, I'm sure one of them is delusional enough (people claiming to be Jesus reborn, to give an extreme example). But perhaps I'm overdramaticizing the use of the word 'incarnation', as I simply mean to say that I don't believe anyone -could- claim either moral extreme believably for themselves. Thus providing perhaps a snippet of evidence towards saying 'there is no Good or Evil within mankind', then again I like to play devil's advocate and ask 'Would we know it when we see it?'. Which makes us come back to the topic of everyone's individual moral perspective on certain subjects.
              Perhaps it depends. Some without a conscience think nothing they do is considered "evil" or "bad". Not good necessarily but they don't think it's wrong or hurtful or whatever you want to call it.
              "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

              "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

              Comment


                #82
                Re: Evil

                Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
                Perhaps it depends. Some without a conscience think nothing they do is considered "evil" or "bad". Not good necessarily but they don't think it's wrong or hurtful or whatever you want to call it.
                I've heard say (can't recall from where) that the bane of what is considered 'Good', is not necessarily 'Evil', but it's apathy. Not caring about the world and living creatures around ones self. Everyone struggles to find meaning wherever they can find it, attempting to actively fight apathy. It's in our nature. The end result may differ greatly, but in this we are all the same, I feel. If there is anything that comes close to being an 'absolute evil', it would be apathy.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Re: Evil

                  Originally posted by Owlsongs View Post
                  I've heard say (can't recall from where) that the bane of what is considered 'Good', is not necessarily 'Evil', but it's apathy. Not caring about the world and living creatures around ones self. Everyone struggles to find meaning wherever they can find it, attempting to actively fight apathy. It's in our nature. The end result may differ greatly, but in this we are all the same, I feel. If there is anything that comes close to being an 'absolute evil', it would be apathy.
                  That's interesting.
                  "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

                  "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Re: Evil

                    Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
                    Lol. Are you not understanding the words that are in my comment box? I didn't say that you said anything. All you said was "Well this my religious viewpoint on evil and I'm not sugarcoating this topic on evil." I told you that I don't need you to sugarcoat it as I am not a child. I never said that you called me a child or referred to me as one. I was saying I don't need you to sugarcoat it.

                    You know, you saying "By all means yes. If it hurts other people it's evil" is different. So, I knew someone who had BPD which is Borderline Personality Disorder. She was untreated and overly emotional(emotion range is 'normal' for them), so one day she asked me did I want to talk on the phone. I'm human, I have free will and what not so I told her no. After I told her no she expressed that she didn't know whether to laugh or cry. So, because I didn't want to talk on the phone to her, I "hurt" her. So do you think that's evil?
                    I don't believe that all acts that hurt people are evil. Purposeful acts that hurt people can be evil, border on evil or indicate someone who just very well may be a sociopath.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
                    Whether or not something is evil is based on someone's perspective. Hell, what we see as evil could actually be good. We just don't know. I actually agree more with what ThePaganMafia said.
                    Em Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot? I am pretty sure that these are evil people.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Re: Evil

                      Just being the devils advocate here but why are Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot evil while Lincoln (who began an unlawful war that killed between 650,000 and 850,000 people) is considered a hero?
                      The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                      I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Re: Evil

                        Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
                        I don't believe that all acts that hurt people are evil. Purposeful acts that hurt people can be evil, border on evil or indicate someone who just very well may be a sociopath.

                        - - - Updated - - -



                        Em Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot? I am pretty sure that these are evil people.
                        I'm not too sure who Pol Pot is. That's ridiculous lol. So, if I slap another female on purpose just for the hell of it, does that make it evil, or bordering on the line of evil?
                        "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

                        "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Re: Evil

                          Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
                          Just being the devils advocate here but why are Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot evil while Lincoln (who began an unlawful war that killed between 650,000 and 850,000 people) is considered a hero?
                          That is a good question, I will admit. Lincoln never ordered the deaths of 850,000 people as the others did which is not to minimize the effects of the Civil War. I am sure that all of these psychopaths had their "reasons" for what they did. Perhaps in the end Lincoln should be known as evil.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Re: Evil

                            Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
                            That is a good question, I will admit. Lincoln never ordered the deaths of 850,000 people as the others did which is not to minimize the effects of the Civil War. I am sure that all of these psychopaths had their "reasons" for what they did. Perhaps in the end Lincoln should be known as evil.
                            Yeah, well he's known as the man who abolished Slavery so I guess not
                            "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

                            "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Re: Evil

                              Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
                              I'm not too sure who Pol Pot is. That's ridiculous lol. So, if I slap another female on purpose just for the hell of it, does that make it evil, or bordering on the line of evil?
                              Pol Pot was a vicious dictator in Laos or Cambodia who murdered his own people. And slapping someone just for the hell of it may or may not be evil per se but it would be the actions of a sociopath.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by EndlessCravings View Post
                              Yeah, well he's known as the man who abolished Slavery so I guess not
                              Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. While Lincoln ostensibly abolished slavery, the Civil War was not about slavery all together. It actually became the by-product to the real reasons for the war, namely an over reaching fed versus states rights.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Re: Evil

                                Originally posted by Taulmaril View Post
                                Pol Pot was a vicious dictator in Laos or Cambodia who murdered his own people. And slapping someone just for the hell of it may or may not be evil per se but it would be the actions of a sociopath.

                                - - - Updated - - -



                                Let me be the devil's advocate on this one. While Lincoln ostensibly abolished slavery, the Civil War was not about slavery all together. It actually became the by-product to the real reasons for the war, namely an over reaching fed versus states rights.
                                Lol...why would it be the actions of a Sociopath?
                                "Turn, and look in the mirror. What do you see?" Her own brown eyes stared back at her until she was nothing but a blur.

                                "I see you. Red lipstick spread perfectly over your lush mouth, brown eyes that hold centuries upon centuries of secrets. A face made to entice even the most celibate of men and women alike. A red dress that sways and moves with your body, making you a temptation like no other."

                                Comment

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