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    #16
    Re: Things That Are Racist

    Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
    Flags, all flags are a part of our history.
    Then use the right flag. Unless it's for a soldier the fought in the Army of Northern Virginia, fold it up and put it away.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #17
      Re: Things That Are Racist

      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
      Then use the right flag. Unless it's for a soldier the fought in the Army of Northern Virginia, fold it up and put it away.
      For me it is the Army of Northern Virginia, CO D 34th Virginia Infantry and CO F 7th Virginia Infantry plus a few odds and ends as well as some of the Home Guard Regiments for the Confederacy. Union Jack for the Co M 3rd West Virginia Cavalry and a few others. But for me personally only use the flags when I connect them to the actual regiments or GAR & Sons of Confederacy and heritage.
      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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        #18
        Re: Things That Are Racist

        We do Civil War re-enacting, I'm the first person to admit there's a proper context for the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virgina. But that proper context is not on the bumper of most vehicles.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #19
          Re: Things That Are Racist

          I agree with context. The coat of arms of Mobile, Alabama has the flags of the five nations that has flown over the city. This includes the COnfederate Battle Flag, something I have never had a problem with but has been causing controversy literally.

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            #20
            Re: Things That Are Racist

            Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
            I agree with context. The coat of arms of Mobile, Alabama has the flags of the five nations that has flown over the city. This includes the COnfederate Battle Flag, something I have never had a problem with but has been causing controversy literally.

            Pensacola Florida has the same thing in that it's existed under the flag of five different nations. I recall when I was stationed there back in the mid 80's there would be talk now and then about removing a certain flag. From what I've read the battle flag flew there until 2000 when it was replaced with the Confederate flag or the so called Stars and bars flag vice the battle flag. http://www.americancivilwarstory.com...rate-flag.html
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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              #21
              Re: Things That Are Racist

              Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
              Flags, all flags are a part of our history. They are reminders of people we are connected with who served with honor in struggles that need to be remembered so we don't repeat them in the future. I'm not going to fall into the "Civil War" trap and with a determination as to who was wronged or right in that war but if we don't learn to respect those who fought and died on both sides and the cause behind it we will be doomed to repeat that struggle in the future. The flags are a symbol of honor of the men who gave all that they had in battle. That's why they are important to people.
              yeah buuuuuuuuuuuut, you see the kind of people who are waving that flag? It doesn't mean that at all to them. It just means I'm a racist prick.
              Satan is my spirit animal

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                #22
                Re: Things That Are Racist

                Ah, hello worms. I knew you would show up.
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                  #23
                  Re: Things That Are Racist

                  How does anyone "know" what a flag means to another person? Do you stop people and ask them? While I was in Alabama I saw blacks flying the battle flag.

                  Just because a person or a group uses a flag for their own reasons doesn't mean I can't use it for different reasons. The Battle Flag stands for the independence and freedoms that were actually being fought for in the war between the states. It had nothing to do with slavery. The war was fought over economic freedom and states rights. Jefferson Davis had already freed all his slaves before the war ever became an issue, while the slave owners in the north kept theirs until after the war. I believe in the 10th amendment as well as all the others. It has always been the constitution that is the law of the land. If that ever changes then we are likely to end up in another "civil" war.
                  The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                  I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                    #24
                    Re: Things That Are Racist

                    Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
                    How does anyone "know" what a flag means to another person? Do you stop people and ask them? While I was in Alabama I saw blacks flying the battle flag.
                    Don't be willfully obtuse. As a Mexican American, I've occasionally seen dumb asses with that flag as a motif on their ensemble wardrobe. And the words coming out of their mouths to me tell me exactly what that flag means to them. Duh.

                    A population of people from the OC (who are not from the south) are very keen on that look at times. Along with tats that tell you exactly what they are into. (whispers white pride brah):=I:

                    Sadly when a symbol is taken and turned into something of hate and far from its original purpose, well the cat's out of the bag. It's hard to put it back in.
                    Satan is my spirit animal

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                      #25
                      Re: Things That Are Racist

                      Some pagans still use the Celtic cross after the Nazis used it as a reward for sevice to the motherland and called it the "Iron Cross". The swastika is still known as a symbol of healing and protection in spite of the Nazi uses.The "Star of David" is still used as a symbol of healing by non Jewish people. A symbol isn't racist, people are.
                      The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                      I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                        #26
                        Re: Things That Are Racist

                        I'm from Alabama. I have never seen a black person waving a Confederate Flag. I'm sure some have but you obviously have no clue what the general Southern African-Americans view of the flag. You almost seem willfully ignorant on the facts of anything. The Civil War was not your Libertarian wet dream of people fighting for their rights. Slavery was the integral part of the Southern economy and the issue the War centered around. Asuch as white folks try to remove black folks from the integral parts of our history the facts still remain facts: You got no clue.

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                          #27
                          Re: Things That Are Racist

                          If you are a racist A**Hole,it is usually pretty clear even if you show no symbol(Just saying)

                          You will know them by their works..from some holy book or something.
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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                            #28
                            Re: Things That Are Racist



                            Alexander Stephens does a far better job condemning his own cause than I have the time or patience to. Symbols change over time and with different people but personally I have no use for any Confederate flag at this point in time.
                            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

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                              #29
                              Re: Things That Are Racist

                              Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                              I'm from Alabama. I have never seen a black person waving a Confederate Flag. I'm sure some have but you obviously have no clue what the general Southern African-Americans view of the flag. You almost seem willfully ignorant on the facts of anything. The Civil War was not your Libertarian wet dream of people fighting for their rights. Slavery was the integral part of the Southern economy and the issue the War centered around. Asuch as white folks try to remove black folks from the integral parts of our history the facts still remain facts: You got no clue.
                              Can't speak for Alabama but the problem of trying to lay it all upon white people is it ignores the very large percentage of the free black population that also owned slaves. While a percentage might be viewed as free blacks who owned their enslaved family there is a substantial amount that simply purchased and rented out blacks they owned. More than a few books have been written that address that aspect but as normal they tend to get "Forgotten" or "Ignored" in the hype to make it about white people owning black people. Even the US Census records tend to ignore the non-white as those persons of color and such were often part of other census holdings as are most of the tax books and property tax listings for people of color.

                              One book that is pretty highly recommended is BLACK SLAVEOWNERS Free Black Slave Masters in South Carolina, 1790-1860 by Larry Koger copy write 1958 ISBN 1-57003-037-5 University of South Carolina Press, Columbia, South Carolina
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                                #30
                                Re: Things That Are Racist

                                Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                                I'm from Alabama. I have never seen a black person waving a Confederate Flag. I'm sure some have but you obviously have no clue what the general Southern African-Americans view of the flag. You almost seem willfully ignorant on the facts of anything. The Civil War was not your Libertarian wet dream of people fighting for their rights. Slavery was the integral part of the Southern economy and the issue the War centered around. Asuch as white folks try to remove black folks from the integral parts of our history the facts still remain facts: You got no clue.
                                "Willfully ignorant" would imply that I have not studied the period before, during and after the war. I think you accept too readily the history taught by the victors and need to study more on the actual events leading up to, during and following the war. The proclamation that "freed" the slaves only applied to the states involved in the fight. It did not affect any states that did not fight and was made only long after the war was in play. The "cotton producing states" were required to sell their cotton for 10 cents a pound to the northern states and then resold to England for over $1 per pound but the producers were not allowed to sell directly to England by federal mandate. That is the reason the south wanted to be self governing.
                                The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                                I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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