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SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

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    #31
    Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

    Originally posted by anunitu View Post
    So,if an American Black,wears a dashiki(an African garment) not African American because they have not been born in Africa(Except Trevor Noah,who is from South Africa,he is an actual African American) is that appropriation? Not trying to start stuff,just wondering. Everything is taken from some where..a FRENCH beret..a french FRY..an Italian Pizza..French Toast...Belgian waffles...French dressing...Russian dressing.....English muffins...Tex/Mex....Canadian Bacon.....you get the picture I hope...
    Woe to the man or beast that stands between me and pizza. People can whine about their moral outrage all they want. I will have my pizza and rejoice at their tears.
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      #32
      Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

      Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
      mainstream conservatism
      Conservatism doesn't even have a mainstream anymore.

      diversity
      And the leftist extremists just love diversity. That's why they have been fighting to reinstate segregation. So progressive.

      and the largest source of political propaganda in this country?
      Fox News is old news. They've been trying to stump the trump, but found their influence to be lacking. You gotta remember, most people in my generation or younger don't even watch TV anymore.
      Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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        #33
        Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

        Originally posted by anunitu View Post
        With the dreds...perhaps some Marley goods...Yes,a brand named Marley

        And you thought I made that up..go here.


        - - - Updated - - -

        and the pic
        The contents of those jars look like chopped-off dreads!
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          #34
          Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

          Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
          The problem when people act like this is it goes to fund the Conservative narrative of colleges as liberal brainwashing centers and their anti-education agenda. There is a problem in the liberal mainstream with massive outrage over petty things to the point of silencing opposing views. However, education is the remedy and not the aggressor in this.

          Or my college just forgot sign me up for Left Wing Indoctrination and Petty Outrage 101.
          Generally, agreed. Also, it seems to be more of an issue in the English-speaking world. The Left doesn't have as many issues with petty rage in other parts of the world. Petty rage, nitpicking, and upsets over cultural appropriation tend to be the realms of the far-right over here.

          And no, it's not because we don't have immigrants. But as a white person, if I wanted to wear something that looked African or Turkish (large immigrant groups here), it would likely be a neo-Nazi or PEGIDA supporter who would have a problem with it.

          We also have conversations about feminism, racism, and inclusion here. I have a hard time believing that these issues are the fault of "liberals" or the liberal media, when the tone goes in such a different direction in my part of the world. I think it has its roots in a culture of division and inequality. Over there, it's popping up more in liberal discourse as traditionally underrepresented groups are fighting for more inclusion, which is valid, but the anger is often misdirected. Over here, it tends to be people who are shut out economically (working class people and East Germans) who feel that their culture is "threatened" by new influences.

          Either way, instead of starting a backlash, the best way to combat the mentality is to not play into it at all. Instead of lamenting "liberals" or "political correctness," or "ignorant AfD voters", just roll your eyes and move on.

          - - - Updated - - -

          Originally posted by Denarius View Post
          Conservatism doesn't even have a mainstream anymore.



          And the leftist extremists just love diversity. That's why they have been fighting to reinstate segregation. So progressive.



          Fox News is old news. They've been trying to stump the trump, but found their influence to be lacking. You gotta remember, most people in my generation or younger don't even watch TV anymore.
          From a global viewpoint, most of the American media is still fairly conservative. I think that's why liberals there end up screaming so loudly. On a global scale, the US is very right wing and conservative compared to other western countries.
          Last edited by DanieMarie; 01 Apr 2016, 01:31.

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            #35
            Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

            Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
            Either way, instead of starting a backlash, the best way to combat the mentality is to not play into it at all. Instead of lamenting "liberals" or "political correctness," or "ignorant AfD voters", just roll your eyes and move on.
            You do not fix extremism by ignoring it. That is the worst possible thing you could do, extremism only exists because people ignore it and treat it like it's not a problem.

            And it is extremism, and you've all but said that yourself by pointing out that your extreme right espouses similar ideas. Horseshoe Theory, anyone?
            Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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              #36
              Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

              Originally posted by Denarius View Post
              You do not fix extremism by ignoring it. That is the worst possible thing you could do, extremism only exists because people ignore it and treat it like it's not a problem.
              There are different kinds of "extremism," and, I would imagine, that different types need to be dealt with in different ways. What are you suggesting needs to be done, with this kind of extremism, in this kind of case?

              (I have a mental problem - I do not understand vague things or generalities )
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #37
                Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                What are you suggesting needs to be done, with this kind of extremism, in this kind of case?
                I'm saying you don't ignore bad ideas, you challenge them.
                Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                  #38
                  Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                  Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                  You do not fix extremism by ignoring it. That is the worst possible thing you could do, extremism only exists because people ignore it and treat it like it's not a problem.

                  And it is extremism, and you've all but said that yourself by pointing out that your extreme right espouses similar ideas. Horseshoe Theory, anyone?
                  I don't mean ignoring it entirely. I mean ignoring THIS specific issue. When people freak about about this kind of thing, the thing they want most is to provoke a reaction. The best thing to do in this case is to carry on doing what you're doing. When that happens, then the people screaming and complaining seem like a bunch of ridiculous children and things don't escalate to a pointless fight.

                  I'm NOT suggesting that people ignore violence against minorities or marginalizing groups of people. Not by any means.

                  Put it this way. Here, whenever there is a neo-Nazi rally, there are one of two outcomes. The first is that people ignore it and everyone goes home. The second is that people show up and start shouting and throwing bottles at them, and it usually escalates into a full-blown riot. The first outcome is definitely better, because screaming back and throwing bottles doesn't make the Nazis change their minds or stop what they're doing.

                  When dealing with extremism, it's important to pick your battles. When you do choose to fight against something, it's also important to pick your methods. Is screaming back at social justice warriors or Nazis really going to make them stop, or is it just going to make them scream louder?

                  Also, that's a terrible Wikipedia entry. Die Linke barely got a blip in support after the crash of '08. If anything, the following Euro crisis led to a drop in support for Die Linke. Also, the current crop of left and right wing parties here are very, very different from one another and share few of the same goals, so they're terrible examples of Horseshoe Theory. If anything, Die Linke sticks to a very traditional style of socialism, which is probably -why- it has seen its voter numbers drop.

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                    #39
                    Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                    Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                    I don't mean ignoring it entirely. I mean ignoring THIS specific issue. When people freak about about this kind of thing, the thing they want most is to provoke a reaction. The best thing to do in this case is to carry on doing what you're doing. When that happens, then the people screaming and complaining seem like a bunch of ridiculous children and things don't escalate to a pointless fight.
                    I'm not saying riot in the streets. I'm saying use this as a way of getting the truth out there. Cultural appropriation is nonsense, and this whole thing is a perfect snapshot of why it is nonsense. I have seen quite a lot of discussion and criticism of cultural appropriation as a concept, as a starting point for discussing disturbing trends in society and that's great.

                    I haven't seen much screaming, freaking out, or rioting over it, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
                    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                      #40
                      Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                      Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                      Put it this way. Here, whenever there is a neo-Nazi rally, there are one of two outcomes. The first is that people ignore it and everyone goes home. The second is that people show up and start shouting and throwing bottles at them, and it usually escalates into a full-blown riot. The first outcome is definitely better, because screaming back and throwing bottles doesn't make the Nazis change their minds or stop what they're doing.
                      And actually, that overreaction entrenches their position.

                      The worst thing you can do to extremists is feed them justification of their position.
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                        #41
                        Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                        And actually, that overreaction entrenches their position.

                        The worst thing you can do to extremists is feed them justification of their position.
                        Exactly. It's not effective.

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                        I'm not saying riot in the streets. I'm saying use this as a way of getting the truth out there. Cultural appropriation is nonsense, and this whole thing is a perfect snapshot of why it is nonsense. I have seen quite a lot of discussion and criticism of cultural appropriation as a concept, as a starting point for discussing disturbing trends in society and that's great.

                        I haven't seen much screaming, freaking out, or rioting over it, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
                        Sometimes, it's not ridiculous, though. There are valid arguments against taking cultural appropriation too far (such as wearing Halloween costumes based on negative stereotypes or wearing a culture's religious dress in poor taste). It's just a matter of picking your battles.

                        By "screaming," I don't always mean literal screaming. I more meant freaking out about it over social media and the kind of digital "screaming" that a lot of people do these days. I brought up the riot example as an example of when things get really extreme. Most cases aren't that crazy, but the same kind of mentality lies behind most ridiculous social media comment battles. No one really listens to each other, no one is going to change their minds, and it's counterproductive.

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                          #42
                          Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                          I might be missing something here, but...
                          Surely gender appropriation isn't a million miles away from cultural appropriation. When I was a girl, women rarely wore trousers. There was a huge fuss about it. And men didn't wear anything that could be considered feminine (apart from a Scots kilt and let's face it, who is going to complain to a Scotsman in a kilt about what he's wearing?) But nowadays women wear trousers, and men wear kilts, moisturiser, wedding rings (that was a no-no where I came from)... children are even sometimes brought up gender neutral.
                          So... maybe this is the way cultural appropriation will go eventually.
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                            #43
                            Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                            Here's an interesting article dealing with a more serious example of what more people would call "cultural appropriation":

                            Does one ethnic group own its cultural artefacts?

                            Specifically, it looks at the way in which cultural objects are displayed (or not displayed) in museums. The growing trend is that extant cultures (or their nearest still living analogue) should determine what objects should/should not be on public display, how such objects should/should not be described, and who should/should not be allowed to view them.

                            Before responding, I suggest investing 10 minutes in reading the article, but here is what I would call the main takeaway:

                            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                              #44
                              Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                              Here's an interesting article dealing with a more serious example of what more people would call "cultural appropriation":

                              Does one ethnic group own its cultural artefacts?

                              Specifically, it looks at the way in which cultural objects are displayed (or not displayed) in museums. The growing trend is that extant cultures (or their nearest still living analogue) should determine what objects should/should not be on public display, how such objects should/should not be described, and who should/should not be allowed to view them.

                              Before responding, I suggest investing 10 minutes in reading the article, but here is what I would call the main takeaway:
                              I think stuff like ownership really has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. There are a lot of things to consider, such as a) how does that culture feel about its artifacts, b) were the artifacts in question sold and bought legally, c) were they sold and bought legally by today's standards?

                              The article references the marbles taken from the Parthenon, for example. Lord Elgin gained permission from and paid a fee to the Ottoman Empire to excavate them. The Ottoman Empire had conquered Greece and the Greeks were not part of the consultation process. They've been seeking to gain them back pretty much ever since they gained their independence. If you go to Athens, there's a museum next to the Acropolis hill built with the express purpose of housing those marbles. I think they have a strong case for getting them back.

                              As for constructing narratives around artifacts, I think exchange is the best way to go. People from outside a group often -do- misunderstand and misrepresent cultures and people from those cultures are more often in a better place to explain their own people and artifacts. However, exhibitors understand their own culture, which is more or less likely to be the culture of the audience viewing the artifacts, and that matters too. Where I'm from, the First Nations people hold the rights to their own cultural artefacts. They have to grant permission before any of their work is exhibited, photographed, duplicated, etc. However, this does not mean that third parties can't exhibit First Nations artifacts. Both my hometown museum and the Royal BC Museum work together with bands to organize what they display and how. One group doesn't generally dictate the whole process; they work together. Over the years, the exhibits have become much more interesting and informative as a result. Of course, other countries don't follow Canadian law when it comes to this subject, so the issue becomes more complicated. As I said about ownership of artifacts, case-by-case basis.

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                                #45
                                Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

                                This brings up the British museum,and its archaeological things from "Digs" in Middle Eastern countries. King Tut for example,who do these artifacts belong to in truth.
                                As with the native American artifacts,and even the cave paintings in France. Where exactly is the line?

                                These paintings.

                                One might even ask about the Dead Sea Scrolls.......

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