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    neuroscience vs torture

    Note, this is in Science because I DO NOT WANT an ethical debate. We've had them before, I don't want another. I just find the medical argument interesting.

    Donald Trump has suggested the United States should bring back torture. He may be following the will of the people, but he’s not on the right side of science.


    Apparently torture techniques are great ways to damage memory.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



    #2
    Re: neuroscience vs torture

    Ok,as a study of the science..I think it is what it is,and I am not sure it is the best way to access memory with no damage. But as you say the science may be interesting to some. Not going to debate its merits or negatives,but in a purely science aspect,it is way to much effort for the outcome. As always,just my opinion.
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      #3
      Re: neuroscience vs torture

      I could totally understand that.
      So...what DO you do when you want to extract info from a non-cooperative person?
      Just keep asking?
      Give them some tea and sweets?

      I'm actually not being snarky. What's the alternative?
      Satan is my spirit animal

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        #4
        Re: neuroscience vs torture

        That is the million dollar question.
        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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          #5
          Re: neuroscience vs torture

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          I could totally understand that.
          So...what DO you do when you want to extract info from a non-cooperative person?
          Just keep asking?
          Give them some tea and sweets?

          I'm actually not being snarky. What's the alternative?
          Probably, the alternative that yields the best and reliable information is indeed being nice and building a rapport.

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            #6
            Re: neuroscience vs torture

            Any torture is unethical. I don't care if it is used for evil or "good" purposes. Torture takes us back to the days of the Holocaust, to the Witch hunts, Spanish Inquisition, etc... I don't care how it is used, what it is for, it is unethical and should never be used. There can be other ways to get what we want. I'm not trying to get on my high horse here, I guess I am, but I thought the U.S. wasn't the type of country to torture people.
            Anubisa

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              #7
              Re: neuroscience vs torture

              Originally posted by anubisa View Post
              but I thought the U.S. wasn't the type of country to torture people.
              Eh. Slavery,child labor,women's rights,meat industry,state mental hospitals....

              The US has been known to be very bad to people at times.
              Satan is my spirit animal

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                #8
                Re: neuroscience vs torture

                Originally posted by anubisa View Post
                Any torture is unethical. I don't care if it is used for evil or "good" purposes. Torture takes us back to the days of the Holocaust, to the Witch hunts, Spanish Inquisition, etc... I don't care how it is used, what it is for, it is unethical and should never be used. There can be other ways to get what we want. I'm not trying to get on my high horse here, I guess I am, but I thought the U.S. wasn't the type of country to torture people.
                I'm relatively sure that my feelings on making this thread into an ethical debate are spelled out in the opening post. If I clarify them any further than it will be in red text. If you want to get on your ethical high horse than you know how to find the debate section. Do not derail my thread for it.
                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                  #9
                  Re: neuroscience vs torture

                  How do we feel about like non physical 'torture'. Solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, crappy food, Nickelback played on repeat? If torture has been proven to not help get the info, what have we been doing that gets the info?
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: neuroscience vs torture

                    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                    How do we feel about like non physical 'torture'. Solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, crappy food, Nickelback played on repeat? If torture has been proven to not help get the info, what have we been doing that gets the info?
                    I think any technique that involves negative reinforcement will be ineffective.

                    Interesting article detailing positive reinforcement techniques in interrogation: https://globalecco.org/learning-from...interrogation-

                    Psychologically it makes sense. If you're captor begins to identify or like you the higher chance you will get reliable information. That is why the best interrogators have never been known for torture.

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                      #11
                      Re: neuroscience vs torture

                      Sorry Mask...did you expect any different?
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                      sigpic

                      my new page here,let me know what you think.


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                        #12
                        Re: neuroscience vs torture

                        Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                        Sorry Mask...did you expect any different?
                        My guess is. Yes. He did. Or he wouldn't have made it clear in the OP. Now, stop derailing.
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                          #13
                          Re: neuroscience vs torture

                          Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                          Probably, the alternative that yields the best and reliable information is indeed being nice and building a rapport.
                          But then wouldn't there be counter training to combat that?
                          Like look, they are going to try to be your bestie, it's a trap! Don't fall for it.
                          Anyone know what other countries do that don't torture though?
                          Satan is my spirit animal

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                            #14
                            Re: neuroscience vs torture

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            But then wouldn't there be counter training to combat that?
                            Like look, they are going to try to be your bestie, it's a trap! Don't fall for it.
                            There is training for that. The U.S. Army has SERE(Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape) school. It's generally taken by people involved in special operations. I don't think there are any similar programs among terrorist schools. NATO has their own resistance school. I'm sure every military has some form of resistance training. And, yes, people have been through training are probably less susceptible to interrogation techniques and suggestion.

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            Anyone know what other countries do that don't torture though?
                            Almost all countries are involved in torture techniques to some degree or another whether they publicly admit it or not. Even countries you wouldn't expect like New Zealand and Sweden have used torture techniques.

                            Over 50 countries were involved in the CIA's torture program: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6297832.html

                            I don't think there is a "master list" of countries that haven't tortured. But, it's safe to say it is a fairly common practice.

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                              #15
                              Re: neuroscience vs torture

                              That used to be called "Counter insurgency school" Goes back to the Vietnam war,perhaps before even.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              See here.
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                              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                              sigpic

                              my new page here,let me know what you think.


                              nothing but the shadow of what was

                              witchvox
                              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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