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  • #16
    Re: "Atheist Wiccan"? WTF?

    Originally posted by anunitu View Post
    it is the human practice of "Hey,look at me,I am really different,not like all the others that drink coke and wear jeans,I wear kackies and drink 7-up"

    Maybe for some. But I know a number of people that are some form of non-theistic and still do religion because it fulfils a need for them, whether it's a creative/inspiration thing or a cultural/social thing, or whatever... And it's not just Pagans--I have a friend that has been an agnostic Catholic for years.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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    • #17
      Re: "Atheist Wiccan"? WTF?

      Originally posted by anunitu View Post
      it is the human practice of "Hey,look at me,I am really different,not like all the others that drink coke and wear jeans,I wear kackies and drink 7-up"
      AND,I am VERY special bunny ya know...!really fluffy and stuff.
      I admit, that very thought came to my mind as well. I will not assume it of everyone who claims the title, but...yeah, likely, especially in the group in question. Lots of special snowflakes, like the girl who just yesterday claimed to have been descended from one of the "original witches burned in Salem."

      Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
      I don't know, something about symbols, not literally, metaphors etc.

      I'd assume it's like Satanists being atheists at the same time.
      I figured it was something like that. Honestly, while I have much respect for Satanists, I sort of feel the same way about them, especially considering LaVey himself said he wrote the Satanic Bible as a work of satirical fiction. I can understand much better how atheists can believe in magic, though, for magic doesn't require the existence of deities to work. Don't get me wrong, I say every religion was "made up," so none are better than the others in that respect. I would say Satanism is a little more consistent, in that it's basically a rebellion and a promotion of humanism. "Atheist Wicca" would seem, on the surface, to be a way of being a hippy while having a fancy title and little more. Now, if it really does have to do with soft polytheism, then fine. I suppose I just don't trust my fellow human enough to not be in it for the special title, at least not in the group I'm referring to.

      By the way, whoever edited the title of this thread and merged my second post with the first, thank you. I admit, I was a little frazzled when I wrote the OP.
      Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
      -Erik Erikson

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      • #18
        Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

        Ok. So I'm an atheist.
        I'm also a LaVeyan satanist.
        Lemme break down how that works

        My belief system in the cosmos is that as an atheist. It means ONLY one single little thing. It just means I have no belief in deities. It doesn't tell you my belief of the afterlife (if there is one etc)how the world was created, what life means. It doesn't tell you my moral compass. It doesn't tell you my views on sexuality, my political views or how I feel about anything to be honest. It just says this person has no belief in deity.

        This does not give me direction in my life as much as a point in that a way. I navigate (those old folks and people who know me, know I've used this exact phrase over and over. Sorry)the world through the philosophy of LaVeyan satanism. I form my morals and how I feel about the world in general from Satanism. I form how I behave in this world. How I make decisions. How I treat others through Satanism.

        atheism cannot give me that. It's not a philosophy in life. It's a label just like theism is a label.

        Theism. The belief in a deity.

        Well Christians are theists. So are Muslims. And so are theistic Satanists. But they are all very very different aren't they. The label just lets you know off the bat where they stand in relation to their belief in a deity. It doesn't tell you if they eat pork or not or sacrifice babies for the Dark Lord
        Satan is my spirit animal

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        • #19
          Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          Ok. So I'm an atheist.
          I'm also a LaVeyan satanist.
          Lemme break down how that works

          My belief system in the cosmos is that as an atheist. It means ONLY one single little thing. It just means I have no belief in deities. It doesn't tell you my belief of the afterlife (if there is one etc)how the world was created, what life means. It doesn't tell you my moral compass. It doesn't tell you my views on sexuality, my political views or how I feel about anything to be honest. It just says this person has no belief in deity.

          This does not give me direction in my life as much as a point in that a way. I navigate (those old folks and people who know me, know I've used this exact phrase over and over. Sorry)the world through the philosophy of LaVeyan satanism. I form my morals and how I feel about the world in general from Satanism. I form how I behave in this world. How I make decisions. How I treat others through Satanism.

          atheism cannot give me that. It's not a philosophy in life. It's a label just like theism is a label.

          Theism. The belief in a deity.

          Well Christians are theists. So are Muslims. And so are theistic Satanists. But they are all very very different aren't they. The label just lets you know off the bat where they stand in relation to their belief in a deity. It doesn't tell you if they eat pork or not or sacrifice babies for the Dark Lord
          Certainly. I've known for some time that LaVeyans are atheists. I actually have a lot of respect for LaVeyan philosophy, and if I weren't a polytheist, I'd probably be one. As a matter of fact, I don't know whether you remember or not, but some years ago I asked you how, as atheists, that branch of Satanism reconciles lack of belief in a deity with the rituals in the Satanic Bible, and you gave me an illuminating response.

          I would like to say that I don't judge other people's morals or beliefs based on their religion, or lack thereof. I'm just as capable of agreeing or disagreeing on any issue with an atheist as I am a theist, as capable of such with a Pagan, a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Satanist, or any other persuasion. I believe that religion is/can be a very good thing, no matter which one it is, so long as it's used in a healthy manner that promotes growth and harmony. An atheist (in the strictest sense) with no spiritual standpoint (let's say they're basically a humanist) is just as capable of being harmonious and moral.

          As far as the issue I initially brought up, I suppose one might call me old-fashioned. Maybe I sometimes get too strict when it comes to semantics.

          At any rate, I thank you for your response.
          Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
          -Erik Erikson

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          • #20
            Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

            Really,in a very deep sense,a question that would be very hard to answer,BUT would give serious insight to the human condition is just why we ponder gods and demons. What part of the human psyche pushes us to seek after the spiritual and follow any beliefs?

            The Program on National Geographic with Morgan Freeman is really intresting. Not sure if it will hit on Pagan Beliefs,but one can hope.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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            • #21
              Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
              Really,in a very deep sense,a question that would be very hard to answer,BUT would give serious insight to the human condition is just why we ponder gods and demons. What part of the human psyche pushes us to seek after the spiritual and follow any beliefs?

              The Program on National Geographic with Morgan Freeman is really intresting. Not sure if it will hit on Pagan Beliefs,but one can hope.
              I suppose it has something to do with existentialism. Few of us like to think for too long about the possibility that our very existence is pointless. Or maybe that's just me. Thinking very long about that idea depresses me.

              On a more optimistic note, I like to think of it as a way of being grateful and having purpose. Atheists can of course be grateful and feel purposeful, but I guess some of us like to put a face on what we're grateful for and revering it. It certainly isn't any easy thing to consider.
              Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
              -Erik Erikson

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              • #22
                Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                Not everybody sees the world in black and white, for some of us there are all kinds of purty colors out there.

                For those who see the colors, it would require a degenerative brain disease to fail to notive them.

                The question "is there a god or gods?" only allows a black or white answer...


                PS- being atheist and having a pointless existance are not synonomous - that's pro-theistic propaganda, and flat out wrong.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                • #23
                  Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  PS- being atheist and having a pointless existance are not synonomous - that's pro-theistic propaganda, and flat out wrong.
                  I never said any such thing. Maybe I should have stayed away from here...just about everything I'm saying is being taken wrong.
                  Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
                  -Erik Erikson

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                  • #24
                    Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                    Not at all Clive...I just think B. De. has run across anti-atheist people before.
                    I might be atheist,but more agnostic...Mixed feelings concerning beliefs only because I WANT there to be actual GODs,but as the world is and seems to mean to stay..my mind doubts.
                    I know,I must choose right? But do I really need to choose.?..If there are spirits we label gods,they would know my inner thoughts,and understand my doubts.
                    I honor all peoples beliefs,even ones I might have trouble understanding,THAT is the very crux of Freedom of religion..everyone is right in their own beliefs.
                    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                    sigpic

                    my new page here,let me know what you think.


                    nothing but the shadow of what was

                    witchvox
                    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                      Originally posted by Clive View Post
                      I never said any such thing. Maybe I should have stayed away from here...just about everything I'm saying is being taken wrong.
                      No stay! The point is there are only a few of us atheists. And if you haven't noticed, we all still follow a very different path from each other. With influences and experiences moving us. The point is we need to correct views when they are shows to be in error of our atheism. Trust me your views are pretty much what we come across on a daily basis. We are just the nice ones who have a conversation back and don't just...do atheist soulless things back.

                      Also being soulless is good. I can move around MO fully and freely. He's never going to eat me. I'm not full of the good soul stuff he most treasures to consume.
                      Satan is my spirit animal

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                      • #26
                        Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                        Pokes Duce to see if she squeaks,or passes gas,but is that gas really a soul leaking? Ahh,the mysteries of humans,always something to poke a pin in to see what happens... Trust me kids,none of you is safe with me hanging around in the shadows...Mohahaha..cough..cough..cough...hahaha

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        And you all know,everybody has something to hide. Except me and my Monkey.


                        Just because I am an old hippy street freak

                        - - - Updated - - -

                        Not at all sure what they call this music,but it is kinda interesting.
                        and it fits the theme for this thread.
                        CPU Vs. Bliss. Who is god?
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                          Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                          Not at all Clive...I just think B. De. has run across anti-atheist people before.
                          I might be atheist,but more agnostic...Mixed feelings concerning beliefs only because I WANT there to be actual GODs,but as the world is and seems to mean to stay..my mind doubts.
                          I know,I must choose right? But do I really need to choose.?..If there are spirits we label gods,they would know my inner thoughts,and understand my doubts.
                          I honor all peoples beliefs,even ones I might have trouble understanding,THAT is the very crux of Freedom of religion..everyone is right in their own beliefs.
                          No, I don't think you have to choose, and who's to say that you do? It's all relative, I say. Me, I've had certain crises of faith in my time. I just hold the view that the Gods essentially don't give a shit and never promised everything would be A-Okay, so I can't blame them for anything, so I rely on my personal experience when it comes to my theism. But if someone is totally comfortable holding the view that you just described, I say go with it. It sounds perfectly reasonable.

                          I firmly believe in Freedom of Religion myself. I would never try to force someone to change, because I believe in personal liberty. They have the right to say, think ,and believe whatever they want, but conversely, I have the right to express how I think it might be logically inconsistent. Not morally wrong, just logically inconsistent.

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          No stay! The point is there are only a few of us atheists. And if you haven't noticed, we all still follow a very different path from each other. With influences and experiences moving us. The point is we need to correct views when they are shows to be in error of our atheism. Trust me your views are pretty much what we come across on a daily basis. We are just the nice ones who have a conversation back and don't just...do atheist soulless things back.

                          Also being soulless is good. I can move around MO fully and freely. He's never going to eat me. I'm not full of the good soul stuff he most treasures to consume.
                          Wait, what are my views with which you have an issue? I'm actually very pro-atheist, even if I am not one. I would more likely rather hang out with an atheist than a fundamentalist or fluff bunny. Unless the atheist in question happens to be an asshole, then each party can kindly feck off.

                          To quote myself from my previous post, "Atheists can of course be grateful and feel purposeful, but I guess some of us like to put a face on what we're grateful for and revering [sic] it." I'm not understanding how this equates to "Atheists have no purpose in life" or any other anti-atheist sentiment.
                          Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
                          -Erik Erikson

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                          • #28
                            Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                            This is the problem,everyone hears something,even if nothing is said..it is a weird human trait. I read about this in a piece about communications between humans. Someone says "Dog" and the other person because of their mindset hears "Cat".

                            And here is a explanation from scientific American.
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                            • #29
                              Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                              Oh yes, even in adulthood we're often playing a long game of "telephone" like we did in first grade. I find it exceptionally frustrating. You'd think having it in writing or text would make things more clear, though.
                              Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
                              -Erik Erikson

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: "Atheist Wiccan"?

                                Even in reading,people can see something else than what is written. For sure humans are just damn lucky they have not wiped each other out because of this "set human trait".
                                One would have expected those ICBM's to be shooting to their targets because of this...for some reason we did not destroy ourselves...YET

                                - - - Updated - - -

                                I watched a National Geographic program about the brain...The human brain is a VERY complex thing,and the series explained just how easy it is to "trick" the brain to see what is not even there. Misdirection in magic relays on this. If you get the chance to watch the NG series,it will teach you a lot about your senses and brain science.
                                MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                                all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                                NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                                don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                                sigpic

                                my new page here,let me know what you think.


                                nothing but the shadow of what was

                                witchvox
                                http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                                Comment

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