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    Spiritually connecting with deities

    I've read lots on different practices that pagans and witches do, from offerings to spells, divination to cleansing. And even as I'm researching all this, and looking into mythology or reading books about mythology, one thing that has been a stumbling block for me to getting closer to my deity/deities has been that I still don't have a clear idea on how spiritual relationships between deities and people actually works. Like, I know you can practice holidays and rituals and do other magical things for the deities, but what happens beyond that? What do deities expect from us on a personal level, besides rituals? What sort of things would I gain by working with deities?

    I'm asking because I'm a person who wants solid understanding of theory before diving into it. With christianity, it was all well and good to just ask the christian god about how to remove our sins, pray for other people, etc. But when I was into christianity, I sort of got into this anxiety where I thought the christian god had to micromanage our lives, that everything I had to do had to be for the glory of that god, otherwise I was sinning. A few months back, I noticed that my own thoughts or expectations about deities were overriding what my deity/deities were actually trying to tell me, or that they weren't even trying to tell me anything at all. I thought they were trying to micromanage my life, and beyond the first few successful contacts I had with my deities, I reverted back to that kind of anxiety. I know Paganism is not christianity, so really, I just want to know how successful relationships with deities can work, without my mind taking me too far down a dangerous and confused path.

    #2
    Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

    My thoughts on this..just lighten up,and go with the flow. What I mean is many people seem to require a whole set of rules to deal with anything,not just spiritual things.
    In my personal spiritual existence,I can and often kind of play it by ear..If it feels right in your mind and soul,then trust your instincts. I have seen people follow rules that they never question..because it has always been done that way. On a spiritual quest,I think perhaps we need to remember exactly what a quest is.

    So here for definition.

    The thing for me is it seems a reaching beyound our comfort zone,stretching our boundaries,and in some ways evolving into our true selves.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    sigpic

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

      I do rituals and all that to connect so I trust my intuition and interpretation, but beyond that I think it as about noticing the divine essence in everyday things. Before I do my daytime rituals I call on Gaia, Uranus, and Oceanus because I like the idea of Titans, but all I really am doing is calling on the uplifting and empowering feeling of Land, Sky, and Sea.

      Gods, to me, are a part of our souls that is why we connect with them. They are not outside of us in the sense that the Sun is external to us, but all around us like oxygen or water - they are a part of us yet are also everywhere around us.

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        #4
        Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

        Originally posted by anunitu View Post
        My thoughts on this..just lighten up,and go with the flow. What I mean is many people seem to require a whole set of rules to deal with anything,not just spiritual things.
        In my personal spiritual existence,I can and often kind of play it by ear..If it feels right in your mind and soul,then trust your instincts. I have seen people follow rules that they never question..because it has always been done that way. On a spiritual quest,I think perhaps we need to remember exactly what a quest is.

        So here for definition.

        The thing for me is it seems a reaching beyound our comfort zone,stretching our boundaries,and in some ways evolving into our true selves.
        I think that's truly the point that I wish to get at, where I can go without rules and go with the flow. Just at this moment in my life, going with the flow last time ended up with a growing Pagan relationship with a paranoid christian mindset. And I understand I've made topics like these before, and you all might be tired of reading these, but I'm just having a difficult time. I certainly don't want to be at a point where I follow rules and never question, but maybe a few examples of good relationships with deities would be appreciated.

        Originally posted by THANK... View Post
        I do rituals and all that to connect so I trust my intuition and interpretation, but beyond that I think it as about noticing the divine essence in everyday things. Before I do my daytime rituals I call on Gaia, Uranus, and Oceanus because I like the idea of Titans, but all I really am doing is calling on the uplifting and empowering feeling of Land, Sky, and Sea.

        Gods, to me, are a part of our souls that is why we connect with them. They are not outside of us in the sense that the Sun is external to us, but all around us like oxygen or water - they are a part of us yet are also everywhere around us.
        That's a very good point, I've noticed it's harder to spiritually connect than when I was going full blast on it, so I think I should really keep it up, at least with the universe.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

          Originally posted by toxicyarnglare View Post
          And I understand I've made topics like these before, and you all might be tired of reading these, but I'm just having a difficult time. I certainly don't want to be at a point where I follow rules and never question, but maybe a few examples of good relationships with deities would be appreciated.
          Tox, don't worry! Your questions reveal that you truly are seeking and are always genuine. There's nothing annoying or boring about that.



          Originally posted by THANK... View Post

          Gods, to me, are a part of our souls that is why we connect with them. They are not outside of us in the sense that the Sun is external to us, but all around us like oxygen or water - they are a part of us yet are also everywhere around us.
          Hopefully you won't mind me adding my two cents since I'm a Christian and you're trying to undo that work. THANK has hit the nail right on the head here as far as I'm concerned. This is where a good relationship begins. Recognise that deity is a part of you and know that there is nothing you or they can do to change that. The connection is ever-present, incorruptible, irrevocable.

          For me, this means that I live day by day and try not to worry too much about the future, fate and destiny etc. I have taken on a more realistic view of What can be accomplished in a day. The Sikh belief of cultivating a spirituality through everyday tasks spoke volumes to me. I can just relax into my life, no pressure.

          When you enquire about a connection, are you asking about a feeling of companionship? I know that's a very popular sentiment in Christianity, but I'm not sure if it's a Pagan aim. It seems that the relationship between humans and deity operates much more like a mutually beneficial "contract" for want of a better word. Someone please speak up if I'm wrong. So there may be a mix-up of expectations?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

            This is interesting,when I was growing up and my Mother had us in the SDA church the concept of a personal Jesus was the thing. Now I had interaction with many other Christian denominations over the years and when I mentioned that "Personal Jesus" concept some other people in other denominations did not believe in a one on one connection with Jesus or God. I started researching many religions to learn how people related with their deity(s) and found a lot about the whole concept of human connection.
            Over the years this research helped me with my path as a pagan. I learned that religion(spirituality) can be complex at times,but I also found for myself it did not have to be all that complex to be a path you found good for you.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

              Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
              Hopefully you won't mind me adding my two cents since I'm a Christian and you're trying to undo that work. THANK has hit the nail right on the head here as far as I'm concerned. This is where a good relationship begins. Recognise that deity is a part of you and know that there is nothing you or they can do to change that. The connection is ever-present, incorruptible, irrevocable.
              I don't mind at all, I definitely respect you and your opinions. I think that can be somewhat of a better place to start, though my beliefs have kind of fallen to a medium polytheism (universe as one deity and individual deities and spirits from other religions, or no religions).

              Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
              For me, this means that I live day by day and try not to worry too much about the future, fate and destiny etc. I have taken on a more realistic view of What can be accomplished in a day. The Sikh belief of cultivating a spirituality through everyday tasks spoke volumes to me. I can just relax into my life, no pressure.

              When you enquire about a connection, are you asking about a feeling of companionship? I know that's a very popular sentiment in Christianity, but I'm not sure if it's a Pagan aim. It seems that the relationship between humans and deity operates much more like a mutually beneficial "contract" for want of a better word. Someone please speak up if I'm wrong. So there may be a mix-up of expectations?
              That's certainly a goal I have, and try to do to some extent. Right now it's very difficult to try to be more relaxed about it, but due to my anxiety and depression, sometimes I just have bad days (or weeks).

              As for the connection, I understand why you may think I'm expecting some christian-like connection, and right now, I'm not. I understand the gods and goddesses have little time to try to fill every request we send them without getting something back in return. Part of what I was asking was, what are some of those things I can give back to them? Are rituals, wheel of the year celebrations, and offerings enough? Or do deities expect something in the spiritual realm at times, as well.

              My expectations on this aren't from christianity, rather, more from Pagan youtubers, such as Joey Morris, cutewitch772, and many others. Their experiences with deities, (in Joey Morris's case, The Morrigan, in cutewitch772's case, a great Goddess) seem greatly personal, though in my head, I guess I'm trying to figure out how it can be personal without myself going back into a christian mindset, whether anxiety filled or not. I'm just realizing how much of a hold christianity still has over me, even though I'm almost 4 years not a christian.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
              This is interesting,when I was growing up and my Mother had us in the SDA church the concept of a personal Jesus was the thing. Now I had interaction with many other Christian denominations over the years and when I mentioned that "Personal Jesus" concept some other people in other denominations did not believe in a one on one connection with Jesus or God. I started researching many religions to learn how people related with their deity(s) and found a lot about the whole concept of human connection.
              Over the years this research helped me with my path as a pagan. I learned that religion(spirituality) can be complex at times,but I also found for myself it did not have to be all that complex to be a path you found good for you.
              Thank you, I'll keep that in mind to think about.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

                I have nothing to add here, but I wanted to thank all who've posted, and Toxicyarnglare for asking the question. I have noticed lately that while I do have a 'connection' with deity, it lacks the intamicy it once had. I'd put it down to my age and the realisation that this quite possibly is all there will ever be to my life. I've stopped believing in miracles or that there's more opportunities waiting for me in life. I like the idea of living in the here and now and accepting the presence of deity without the demand for miracles.

                I have never heard of the concept if a personal Jesus, but I think there is plenty room in my current beliefs about what deity is, for a personal Goddess.

                Thanks for giving me the opportunity to think about my own connection with deity, and thank you for the inspiring ideas to get me started!
                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

                  Originally posted by toxicyarnglare View Post
                  Like, I know you can practice holidays and rituals and do other magical things for the deities, but what happens beyond that? What do deities expect from us on a personal level, besides rituals? What sort of things would I gain by working with deities?
                  This depends largely on how you view deity. I'm a hard-polytheist who believe that deities are actual beings who actually exist in another plane of existence, and interface with us here... so with that in mind, my experience is this...

                  The harsh reality is that most deities expect nothing from us on a personal level. They are just after the energy. Plain and simple.

                  Most deities connect with us on a relatively simple energy exchange system. We worship them, perform rituals in their name, send them offerings and generally strengthen their ability to affect change in Thisworld by devoting our energy and spiritual focus to them. What do we get? We get a bit of their energy helping us in our endeavors, we get to feel their 'presence' (which may or may not be their actual presence, but which is mostly the feel of their energy and/or attention), and sometimes we get some insight or lesson about life. And we get some sort of assurance about what happens to us when we die.

                  Some people do end up with a closer, more personal, one-on-one relationship with their deity, but usually that requires a much more dedicated devotional path, or some sort of 'job' that you do for them in Thisworld on a regular basis.

                  Either way, do people who work with deities get anything that people who don't work with deities get? In a practical sense, no. You can do your magick without deity help. You can learn life's lessons without deity help.

                  Now, if you have a more pantheistic approach, it's a little different. In that case it's not an actual entity that you are connecting with necessarily, but an essence... and that's a bit more like THANK.. describes. That essence is a part of you, in the sense that the essence of everything (including us) is a part of something larger. We connect with it via the manifestations that interface with us the best. So in a sense when we connect with the deity, what we are really doing is connecting to the 'Something Larger' (I call it The Divine, because I am also a panentheist who believes in this 'something larger' as well as actual individual deities sitting in the Otherworlds). The Divine is something that can feel very personal, very fulfilling, and very profound when you tap into it, and if you tap into it via the face/manifestations/persona of a deity... well there is your deity connection. Is it the same as connecting with an actual entity sitting in the Otherworlds? No. Is it any less profound? Absolutely not. It's a very profound thing to connect with The Divine in whatever form you see it... a deity, an energy, the Land, Sky, Sea, whatever. To me, deities are a part of the Divine in the same way that we are... it overarches everything. Everything.

                  What does the 'Something Larger' expect of us? Nothing. It just is. It's there, irrespective of what we do or don't do. We use spiritual and religious practices to guide us to it, but it doesn't actually care what we are or aren't doing. So you do whatever helps you connect to that essence... rituals, offerings, walking out in nature, cleaning up the beach, mindfullness exercises, trance, deep introspection, volunteering your time to a charity, studying a particular subject, star gazing, gardening, reading to the elderly, going to church, practicing your morals and ethics in everyday life, striving to see the sacred in the mundane... whatever helps you connect is exactly what you should be doing. There are no strings attached with this one. You can't stuff it up. You can't offend The Divine. It's not going to consciously ignore you if you did the wrong thing... it just means that you haven't found the thing that connects your mind with 'Something Larger' yet. Whatever fulfills you spiritually is what's going to help you get that connection, so try things until you find it.

                  Personally, I think what most of us are looking for when we talk about 'connecting with deities' is actually a connection with The Divine / Something Larger. We just got it confused because we equate mythology with religion when that's not necessarily true. I don't get the same feeling from Skuld (the deity that I am sworn to and who I have an ongoing relationship with) than I do from The Divine. They are two quite different things... and when I read what other people describe as that close, personal, filled with the presence of 'god' thing... well that's what I feel with The Divine, not Skuld or Barbatos or Ereshkigal or Skadhi or Blodugaddha or any of the other deities I work with on a regular basis. Their presence is very profound, but it's not the same thing. So I wonder if this is why people get disillusioned with deity work... because they are expecting the connection with 'Something Larger' and that's not what they get.

                  Originally posted by toxicyarnglare View Post
                  I'm asking because I'm a person who wants solid understanding of theory before diving into it. With christianity, it was all well and good to just ask the christian god about how to remove our sins, pray for other people, etc. But when I was into christianity, I sort of got into this anxiety where I thought the christian god had to micromanage our lives, that everything I had to do had to be for the glory of that god, otherwise I was sinning. A few months back, I noticed that my own thoughts or expectations about deities were overriding what my deity/deities were actually trying to tell me, or that they weren't even trying to tell me anything at all. I thought they were trying to micromanage my life, and beyond the first few successful contacts I had with my deities, I reverted back to that kind of anxiety. I know Paganism is not christianity, so really, I just want to know how successful relationships with deities can work, without my mind taking me too far down a dangerous and confused path.
                  Can I just say that this is not what Christianity is about. At least, not the forms that I've been exposed to. It's not about being micromanaged. It's about striving to live to certain moral and spiritual ideals. And guess what... that's the exact same thing that most spiritual paths and religions are about... striving to live to certain moral and spiritual ideals. The details may differ, and there may be fundamentalistis who have twisted the religion around, but I think that it's important for us to remember that underlying point (and that there are fundamentalists in ALL religions, including pagan ones).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Spiritually connecting with deities

                    Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                    This depends largely on how you view deity. I'm a hard-polytheist who believe that deities are actual beings who actually exist in another plane of existence, and interface with us here... so with that in mind, my experience is this...

                    The harsh reality is that most deities expect nothing from us on a personal level. They are just after the energy. Plain and simple.

                    Most deities connect with us on a relatively simple energy exchange system. We worship them, perform rituals in their name, send them offerings and generally strengthen their ability to affect change in Thisworld by devoting our energy and spiritual focus to them. What do we get? We get a bit of their energy helping us in our endeavors, we get to feel their 'presence' (which may or may not be their actual presence, but which is mostly the feel of their energy and/or attention), and sometimes we get some insight or lesson about life. And we get some sort of assurance about what happens to us when we die.

                    Some people do end up with a closer, more personal, one-on-one relationship with their deity, but usually that requires a much more dedicated devotional path, or some sort of 'job' that you do for them in Thisworld on a regular basis.

                    Either way, do people who work with deities get anything that people who don't work with deities get? In a practical sense, no. You can do your magick without deity help. You can learn life's lessons without deity help.

                    Now, if you have a more pantheistic approach, it's a little different. In that case it's not an actual entity that you are connecting with necessarily, but an essence... and that's a bit more like THANK.. describes. That essence is a part of you, in the sense that the essence of everything (including us) is a part of something larger. We connect with it via the manifestations that interface with us the best. So in a sense when we connect with the deity, what we are really doing is connecting to the 'Something Larger' (I call it The Divine, because I am also a panentheist who believes in this 'something larger' as well as actual individual deities sitting in the Otherworlds). The Divine is something that can feel very personal, very fulfilling, and very profound when you tap into it, and if you tap into it via the face/manifestations/persona of a deity... well there is your deity connection. Is it the same as connecting with an actual entity sitting in the Otherworlds? No. Is it any less profound? Absolutely not. It's a very profound thing to connect with The Divine in whatever form you see it... a deity, an energy, the Land, Sky, Sea, whatever. To me, deities are a part of the Divine in the same way that we are... it overarches everything. Everything.

                    What does the 'Something Larger' expect of us? Nothing. It just is. It's there, irrespective of what we do or don't do. We use spiritual and religious practices to guide us to it, but it doesn't actually care what we are or aren't doing. So you do whatever helps you connect to that essence... rituals, offerings, walking out in nature, cleaning up the beach, mindfullness exercises, trance, deep introspection, volunteering your time to a charity, studying a particular subject, star gazing, gardening, reading to the elderly, going to church, practicing your morals and ethics in everyday life, striving to see the sacred in the mundane... whatever helps you connect is exactly what you should be doing. There are no strings attached with this one. You can't stuff it up. You can't offend The Divine. It's not going to consciously ignore you if you did the wrong thing... it just means that you haven't found the thing that connects your mind with 'Something Larger' yet. Whatever fulfills you spiritually is what's going to help you get that connection, so try things until you find it.

                    Personally, I think what most of us are looking for when we talk about 'connecting with deities' is actually a connection with The Divine / Something Larger. We just got it confused because we equate mythology with religion when that's not necessarily true. I don't get the same feeling from Skuld (the deity that I am sworn to and who I have an ongoing relationship with) than I do from The Divine. They are two quite different things... and when I read what other people describe as that close, personal, filled with the presence of 'god' thing... well that's what I feel with The Divine, not Skuld or Barbatos or Ereshkigal or Skadhi or Blodugaddha or any of the other deities I work with on a regular basis. Their presence is very profound, but it's not the same thing. So I wonder if this is why people get disillusioned with deity work... because they are expecting the connection with 'Something Larger' and that's not what they get.



                    Can I just say that this is not what Christianity is about. At least, not the forms that I've been exposed to. It's not about being micromanaged. It's about striving to live to certain moral and spiritual ideals. And guess what... that's the exact same thing that most spiritual paths and religions are about... striving to live to certain moral and spiritual ideals. The details may differ, and there may be fundamentalistis who have twisted the religion around, but I think that it's important for us to remember that underlying point (and that there are fundamentalists in ALL religions, including pagan ones).
                    I know it's a few months late, but I still would like to reply. I your post was something I needed at that time so that I could really understand where I was in the universe, and I thank you for that, even though I believe some of my experiences differ from what you believe. Being a person who kind of is a medium polytheist, in a way, who believes that there's both hard deities, and there's a spiritual presence that envelops everything, makes it somewhat confusing for me. From my experience, working with this deity and working with the universe feels totally different. When I draw energy from the universe, it gives me more energy, whether spiritual or just physical/mental, but it feels detached from me, like it's just there. I've never felt that with my deity, when I talk with Her, She speaks to me clearly and cares about what I'm going through, much more than I feel like I deserve.

                    I spoke with Her again today, and She says that She misses me like a friend would miss another who was long gone. I think that's because after what you said, I felt kind of like, disappointed in a way, and that it would be more like a full time job if I were going to have a personal relationship with Her. That She would accept me even in my depression, and even though I'm not at a place mentally where I can devote so much time to Her as I would like to, She would like me to pray to Her daily until I'm ready to move further. Surprising as it was, She revealed herself to me as Gaia, but She was so much more than just that, that She's the Earth Mother, and encompasses more than just what the Greeks say about Her, and that She considers me Her own special child, which absolutely floors me. But that will drive me to work that much harder for Her, even as I struggle through depression.

                    As for the last point, I do understand it's not exactly what christianity is about, but I was naive and anxious, and really scarred by the amount of work my pastors were trying to make the congregation do, with their "holiness" doctrines and whatnot. In a way, it really was kind of a fundamentalist attitude, but whether or not christianity should or should not be like that, I still feel very negatively towards the religion as a whole. That's not to say I can't accept christian people, or even other members of PF, but it feels difficult for me to do so. That's just another thing I want to get over, yet I don't think it will happen overnight.
                    Last edited by toxicyarnglare; 31 Aug 2016, 11:15.

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