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    #16
    Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

    Polio is still around in parts of the world.

    Morality is subjective. If there were universal standards we wouldn't have anything to debate (or fight wars) about!

    I had the measles and the mumps before the Beatles were famous, and chicken pox shortly thereafter. We've come a really long way with reducing these diseases!
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      #17
      Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

      Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post

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      The immigration laws are not bad. They are in place to protect the population.
      The immigration laws may not be bad for YOU. You are the 'right' side of the border. But why are you the right side of the border?
      Luck, mostly. You just happened to be born in the right place and at the right time.
      When you talk of laws being their to protect the population, again you have only ONE population in mind. Yours.
      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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        #18
        Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

        Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
        The immigration laws may not be bad for YOU. You are the 'right' side of the border. But why are you the right side of the border?
        Luck, mostly. You just happened to be born in the right place and at the right time.
        When you talk of laws being their to protect the population, again you have only ONE population in mind. Yours.
        Bolded mine

        Realistically that is how it should be. A government is put in place to protect the lively hood, resources and rights of its population. To protect the resources and such that support that population and the infrastructure that enables it to grow and exist. Doesn't really matter what the government is or how it aligns or gains allies with other countries. It's still for the benefit of its own population and yes recognizing that the population will be stratified which really can not be done away with.

        People like to talk about dropping borders but I highly doubt many of them have considered what that will result in. Especially in the sense that migrating groups tend to try and recreate their old homeland where ever they settle in. Yet all that tends to do is bring old arguments, issues, hates, prejudices, etc and plant them again. Then many times give them older foes and new foes where they have settled who do not want to change and become like them.

        The middle east is historically ripe with blood vendetta's, clan war and vendetta's that trace themselves back long before the west got in the picture. Sort of like saying the Balkans would have been different if only the Serbs, Croations, and all the other ethnic groups in the area didn't constantly resort to vendetta justice and practices. Same with Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afaghanastan, and even good old Europe and the US itself.

        Sorry seen prime places that brought in and opened their arms, resources, etc to immigrant groups that simply wanted to flee oppression and make their new homeland the same as their old homeland. Sorry if they want Mexico, Syria, Iran, African Congo, etc then they need to stay in those places not go elsewhere and try to force them to become like where they fled from.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #19
          Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

          Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
          You are absolutely wrong. They are not in place to protect anybody. They are in place to maintain control, order, and ensure the status quo. The ruling class decide who comes and goes in this country. These policies are in place to ensure we can continue using cheap, undocumented labor to support the U.S. economy. See: slavery.

          It's also not 1492 like we're giving out plague blankets. Not, that we give our most powerless citizens healthcare anyways. Maybe that would be the answer instead of ICE and Border Patrol thugs.
          Over the years there have been "Bans" put on certain ethnic groups,Chinese were brought in to build the railroads,and then banned because they were "Different",remember the "Irish need not apply" thing. Jews were turned away when they were fleeing Germany,and sent back to Germany on the shops they came here on. Truth be told this country has in the past been less humanitarian than we tend to project as our image of freedom and equality for all.

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          Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
          Polio is still around in parts of the world.

          Morality is subjective. If there were universal standards we wouldn't have anything to debate (or fight wars) about!

          I had the measles and the mumps before the Beatles were famous, and chicken pox shortly thereafter. We've come a really long way with reducing these diseases!
          Growing up,it was pretty normal for kids to "Go through" those diseases and as moms said at the time,get it and get over it..(Was also the idea that these things were worse if you got them as an adult..kinda true,a guy I worked with got the measles at around 30,and he was out of work 2 months)
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

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            #20
            Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

            Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
            Bolded mine

            Realistically that is how it should be. A government is put in place to protect the lively hood, resources and rights of its population. To protect the resources and such that support that population and the infrastructure that enables it to grow and exist.
            Uh... did I miss something? We ARE talking about America, aren't we?

            We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men
            Mebbe I missed the part where it said "citizens only."

            Is it under the coffee stain?
            Last edited by B. de Corbin; 02 Jun 2016, 09:18.
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #21
              Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
              Uh... did I miss something? We ARE talking about America, aren't we?



              Mebbe I missed the part where it said "citizens only."

              Is it under the coffee stain?
              An Illegal or undocumented alien is not a citizen. The government is to protect its citizens and their interest. No different than an American in another country and expecting to be given any benefits due to citizens of said country. The exception being when certain agreements have been signed between the two governments such as SOFA (Status Of Forces Agreements) that tend to cover service personal stationed in those countries or diplomatic agreements. But just being there, especially illegally, nope your basically a non entity. Which should mean you don't get the benefits of being a citizen of the nation or realistically any protections provided to its citizens.
              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                #22
                Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                An Illegal or undocumented alien is not a citizen.
                Yes. That was my point.

                The government is to protect its citizens and their interest.
                The published statement of purpose says governments are established to secure the rights (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) of ALL MEN.

                Again, you don't have to agree with this, I'm just being an American.
                Last edited by B. de Corbin; 02 Jun 2016, 09:41.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #23
                  Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  Yes. That was my point.



                  The published statement of purpose says governments are established to secure the rights (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) of ALL MEN.

                  Again, you don't have to agree with this, I'm just being an American.

                  Even that only implies all American Men. It didn't say anything nor reference anyone who was not American and living within America. Reading it loosely one might infer everyone because it didn't state specifically where they were living. Of course seeing as it was a declaration of independence and a justification for it logically it would only apply to those who would benefit from it or theoretically be punished by signing it.

                  Even trying to read Lincoln's address about liberty and justice for all implies those living in the US via the 4 score and 7 years ago our fathers set forth on THIS Continent a new nation. Again not referring nor implying it applied to non citizens or member's of other nations.
                  I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                    #24
                    Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                    We have entire industries that function off the backs of cheap, "illegal" labor. As we live in capitalism and as such we value life on an individuals monetary contribution to society they certainly deserve our protection, welcome, and support.

                    For below minum wage your average Mexican will break his back 12 hours a day to put food on the table for his family and I don't know whats more fuckin' American than that.

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                      #25
                      Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                      Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                      We have entire industries that function off the backs of cheap, "illegal" labor. As we live in capitalism and as such we value life on an individuals monetary contribution to society they certainly deserve our protection, welcome, and support.

                      For below minum wage your average Mexican will break his back 12 hours a day to put food on the table for his family and I don't know whats more fuckin' American than that.
                      Sorry many of those jobs were done by American's and many times young American's all across America. Even today there are many young American's who would do them but don't have a chance because of the migrant or illegal workers. Didn't matter if it was in orchards picking fruit, slaughter lines for Turkeys, Chickens, Beef. Yet many areas see the illegals and migrants bused in, work for x months, then go back to Mexico then return frequently with new names, social security numbers, etc. Sorry saw that every year working for the school system as we had to try and track school records from year to year as their parents left and came back.

                      Entire industries that were once staple job markets for kids in college and high school or entry level jobs. Jobs American's did do and did want.
                      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                        #26
                        Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                        Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                        Even that only implies all American Men.
                        Nope. Sorry. This is what I do for a living. It says what it says. You can argue, but the document says what it says.

                        It is possible to talk about what a document implies, but what it says is what it means because "implications" are up for grabs, unprovable, and unclear.

                        Anyway, this won't go anywhere, so I should have stayed out when I said I was going to. I will now make a point of being firm with myself
                        Last edited by B. de Corbin; 02 Jun 2016, 09:59.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                          #27
                          Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                          Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                          Sorry many of those jobs were done by American's and many times young American's all across America. Even today there are many young American's who would do them but don't have a chance because of the migrant or illegal workers. Didn't matter if it was in orchards picking fruit, slaughter lines for Turkeys, Chickens, Beef. Yet many areas see the illegals and migrants bused in, work for x months, then go back to Mexico then return frequently with new names, social security numbers, etc. Sorry saw that every year working for the school system as we had to try and track school records from year to year as their parents left and came back.

                          Entire industries that were once staple job markets for kids in college and high school or entry level jobs. Jobs American's did do and did want.
                          Interesting propaganda. Do bad it completely breaks down to the fact that immigrant workers actually create jobs.http://www.businessinsider.com/immig...workers-2015-6

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                            #28
                            Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                            here's an interesting article:
                            Giles Fraser: Why, in this era of advanced globalisation, do we believe in free trade and the free movement of goods, but not in the free movement of labour?
                            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                              #29
                              Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                              Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                              Interesting propaganda. Do bad it completely breaks down to the fact that immigrant workers actually create jobs.http://www.businessinsider.com/immig...workers-2015-6
                              Go ahead and keep your lips wrapped around that cool-aide dispenser. Just like the stories the businessmen were told about costs going down by bringing in the migrants while profits would be raised. In many ways what happened in West Virginia, Virginia and parts of western Maryland were just like the old mine companies. Justify getting ride of local workers by saying they didn't want to work so you could bring in others. Yep all those jobs they created, wait they didn't but it sure looked good on paper and a profit margin.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                              I agree an interesting article. Perhaps the author is right and in the long run it will all happen as he is suggesting. Yet I have to admit I also couldn't get the image of locust out of my head reading it. they to migrate in search of food, opportunity and success. Sad part is they also leave once they've destroyed the crops and lands, leaving the waste behind them as they go for the next harvest. Yet no concern or care about the people's lives they destroyed as they lay waste to resources and take what other wise would have supported the population living there. Sad part I suppose is that it's not just people coming in its also their ethics, morality, beliefs, etc that many are claiming it seems that gives them the right to overburden and ignore those who already live there.
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                                #30
                                Re: Measles outbreak linked to detention camp

                                Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                                Go ahead and keep your lips wrapped around that cool-aide dispenser. Just like the stories the businessmen were told about costs going down by bringing in the migrants while profits would be raised. In many ways what happened in West Virginia, Virginia and parts of western Maryland were just like the old mine companies. Justify getting ride of local workers by saying they didn't want to work so you could bring in others. Yep all those jobs they created, wait they didn't but it sure looked good on paper and a profit margin.


                                If by kool aide dispenser you mean "facts" and not your conjecture and xenophobic propaganda then sure.
                                Last edited by ThePaganMafia; 02 Jun 2016, 11:07.

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