Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

  1. #1
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    10,927
    Religion
    stregheria

    The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    This has started to be discussed because of the Gorilla being killed in the news.
    Reminder,this is NOT PETA vs the world,just your opinion about zoo's and their existence,and peoples ideas that animals should not be held in them.

    Please try not to make it a debate because this is an important idea that may effect how we treat animals in the future:

    So your opinion please.

    Story here.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  2. #2
    Silver Member anubisa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,532
    Religion
    Egyptian Wiccan
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Phrase
    Daughter of Lord Anubis and Lady Bast.

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    I'm not for sure. I think zoos can be educational, but I also think that we have to treat the animals with respect. They're not just exhibits. They are creatures and deserve our respect. So I think zoos can be a good idea, but they need to know how to handle the animals and the animals can't just be used for show.
    Anubisa

    Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

    Reading is Love | Serenity Hutchinson (Online Resume)

  3. #3

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    Okay. I'll bite. Zoos as originally created were atrocious. Many of them remain so. As a child at my local zoo, I rode both a Galapagos tortoise and an elephant who was regularly abused by its keepers. Abuse that would be considered torture as done to humans. The enclosures were concrete and steel bar cells. The animals presented weird ritualistic behaviors. I loved it, not for the abuse, but because it introduced me to so many wonderful animals. I carry that love for the animals with me. Later, zoos just became so creepy and weird to me because of the love I had for those animals.

    I last went to that zoo a couple of years ago. They have transitioned to almost no bars-just waiting to build the last of the new habitats. The exhibits are safer for the animals and humans, and yet increase the intimacy of the encounter. Endangered species are recognized as such and are no longer toddler playthings. It is clear that the animals are cared for with great consideration and to a measurable standard. There are sophisticated breeding and veterinary programs. Education is based on conservation. I still heard a child spontaneously shout "Look, a cheetah!" with some of the deepest joy I have ever encountered. He will no doubt carry some of that feeling for animals with him for the rest of his life.

    That said, some of the animals still displayed disturbing behaviors. Because of the love for animals that I developed at the zoo, I made an effort to learn about these animals, and I worry about the effects of their captivity. Some animals are fine in captivity, and may even thrive. My concern is that some of them do okay-ish, but don't thrive. Unfortunately, there are a number of the not really thriving group who are also in the threatened or endangered group. It may be the best for the survival of the species, and even the particular animal, for it to live in a zoo. Personally, I think that zoos are harmful for polar bears and great apes in particular. I also think that if there is hope for these animals, zoos will have to be involved. Partly this is for the breeding programs, and partly for the conservation education that changes the way people view the animals, and the way humans interact with their habitats.

    So. I still have very mixed feelings. And some zoos are pretty slow to get with the program, presumably because of money.
    I am coming up on some questions that I cannot really answer yet:

    Do we have the responsibility to intervene in this way, when extinction is at risk?
    Do we have the right to intervene in this way, even when extinction is at risk?
    Is it better to save the species and damage the individual animal?
    Is it better to live a long life in captivity, or to die young but wild?
    How much damage do we still do to cultural outlooks on animals when we hold them captive for our entertainment and education, even when we have a noble purpose in saving the animal?

    I lean toward forward thinking zoos, but my reservations are deep.

  4. #4
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    Yes and no. I'm not an expert by any means, but it seems that zoos can play a big role in things like education, research and conservation. As long as the animals have spacious environments with lots of stimuli, I think zoos can be positive.

    I do think there might be a line with the types of animals that should be in zoos, though. Apes seem a bit too close to us to be stared at behind glass, and I always got the feeling when I saw them in zoos that they knew what was going on (that people were looking at them behind the glass). IF we have these kinds of animals in zoos, I think we should be more careful and aware of how we do it.

    I also think zoos need to educate the public better on how to behave at zoos. Yeah, kids will be kids, but knocking at glass and shouting at the animals is not acceptable behaviour. At some zoos (Berlin's Tierpark), the public seems very well behaved overall, whereas others (Barcelona), people seem to just do whatever they want and it seems to make the animals miserable. I think zoos should have more staff to deal with this kind of thing. In Barcelona there was literally no one around to keep people from disturbing the animals. I know that Spain was in crisis at the time (and still is, if we really look at the data), but that needs to be in the budget.

  5. #5
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,228
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    It depends on the zoo.

    I absolutely think there is a role for zoos when it comes to conservation and education and research. But I think that it is critical that it is done with the best interests of the animal, physically and mentally (both of which are necessary for a number of animals to reproduce successfully in captivity).

    Sure, I would prefer we didn't need them...but...we do. The research and conservation arm of some zoos are amazing--and they couldn't do what they do without the support of people drawn in from their experiences at the zoo.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  6. #6
    Copper Member Ula's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    586
    Religion
    Heathen
    Location
    WV

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    If they have great habitats to live in, are treated well, there is an educational element and breeding program with animals going into the wild when acceptable.
    Last edited by Ula; 07 Jun 2016 at 05:22.

  7. #7
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    10,927
    Religion
    stregheria

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    San Francisco's zoo was at one time really going down hill,and then some Corporations and animal welfare groups stepped in and raised a LOT of money to upgrade and refurbish the zoo. The company I worked for was involved in that. We had(after the Zoo was "Fixed") a Company DAY at the zoo,with lots of eats,and stuff for the kids,and a fund raiser to do even more to make the Zoo what it is these days.(BTW,SF has free days once a month,usually only known by people that live in the city) Last Thursday of the month if you wondered. All Museums,Art Museums,the aquarium,and the Zoo..also you can view the cable car house,where the cables are powered..That can make for a fun day.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  8. #8
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    My boyfriend saw an interesting documentary about sea otters yesterday. It had a part where they were looking at sea otters in a zoo in the Netherlands and observing how they behaved. Otters are one species of animals known to use objects as tools. They use seaweed to wrap up their young, kelp to keep them from drifting off while they sleep, and rocks as tools to open shells for food. Anyway, the sea otters in the Netherlands not only used the rocks to open shells, but also to try to escape their enclosure. They were bashing the rocks around the walls and glass, trying to get it to break. The zookeepers had to take the rocks away, but when they did, the otters started using shells for the same purpose.

    I thought of this thread for a couple of reasons:

    1) This is a really interesting and valuable observation about otter behaviour.

    2) Those otters really didn't want to be in captivity.

    On the plus side, the zoo seemed to do everything it could to make the otters happier where they were.

  9. #9
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    10,927
    Religion
    stregheria

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    Many animals are a lot more intelligent than people give them credit for. I watched some "Nature" videos where the animals were pretty much unaware of the human presence,some by motion Sensing cameras and in some cases hidden blinds,and using Odor masking stuff. The "Natural" behavior was very interesting and telling.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  10. #10
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    5,675
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Solitary Pagan
    Location
    Germany

    Re: The discussion now:Should animals be in zoos?

    I was looking to see if there was an article about the sea otter thing I posted about (there isn't), and found a story about a bear at a zoo that hurled a rock at the glass in its enclosure: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/07/us...mashes-window/

    Bears also use rocks as tools.

Similar Threads

  1. GMO animals
    By thalassa in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 15 Aug 2015, 23:28
  2. Your Zoos and Aquariums
    By LearningMan in forum LOLs, Quizzes & Games
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 28 Jul 2015, 20:31
  3. Do animals have souls?
    By Medusa in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 14 Jul 2014, 03:34
  4. Erotic Zoos! Holy Sexy Cow!
    By B. de Corbin in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 29 Nov 2012, 01:36

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •