Consumers lose once again

[B. de Corbin]

I would so like to see legislation such as this passed - planned obsolescence and the short shelf life of expensive tech is very nasty:

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Planned obsolescence is furthered along by the constant introduction of "new & improved" stuff, too. Sometimes all the new bells & whistles are just more junky things designed to break down, but everybody wants them.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Planned obsolescence is furthered along by the constant introduction of "new & improved" stuff, too. Sometimes all the new bells & whistles are just more junky things designed to break down, but everybody wants them.

oh yeah...

I wish it were still possible to buy a stripped-down car.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Apple is involved. Historically, Apple doesn't like people not named Apple tinkering with their stuff. This is the same company that wanted jailbreaking an iphone to be illegal. I can't speak for the others but ludicrous arguments in pursuit of absolute control over its tech is par for the course with Apple.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Apple thinks its products don't contribute to an e-waste problem? Oh really? Then why are there a gajillion iPhone 4s (and earlier) floating around that you can barely even donate because no one wants them and because Apple won't update the software for those models? At the very least they could let you update iOS on all iPhone models so that newer apps will run on them. Apple would probably say it has something to do with RAM and processors, but they're not that different between the older models they don't update and the ones they do. They just want you to toss your iPhone and buy a new one, and that's not cool.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Consumers lose once again

There is no reason you can't do whatever you want with your old I-phone, coffee maker or car. There is also no reason for the manufacturer to provide copyrighted materials or patented information to help you. You own the device and they own the copyrights, patents and trademarked goods. You can do anything you want - except require them to help.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Consumers lose once again

There is no reason you can't do whatever you want with your old I-phone, coffee maker or car. There is also no reason for the manufacturer to provide copyrighted materials or patented information to help you. You own the device and they own the copyrights, patents and trademarked goods. You can do anything you want - except require them to help.

There comes a time with some things when you can't get parts anymore, or the cost of them is ridiculously close to the price of a new item.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Apple thinks its products don't contribute to an e-waste problem? Oh really? Then why are there a gajillion iPhone 4s (and earlier) floating around that you can barely even donate because no one wants them and because Apple won't update the software for those models? At the very least they could let you update iOS on all iPhone models so that newer apps will run on them. Apple would probably say it has something to do with RAM and processors, but they're not that different between the older models they don't update and the ones they do. They just want you to toss your iPhone and buy a new one, and that's not cool.

From what I've read they will become even harder to repair because glue is being used on the new models, instead of screws or clips.

I would like to see tech be created so that it can be mechanically upgraded instead of being replaced.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Well, I have cut apart the molded transformers that power printers and such to repair them. A bad diode or fuse to replace and then glue it back together. I have one that is still working after a few years. The first one that I repaired was the power supply for my first computer - a TRS-80 purchased in 1972. It had three power supplies - one for each of the component parts. I had to make the same repair to each as they failed.
As far as the software is concerned, if you know how to write it (or learn how) you can write the apps yourself or even replace the OS with another.

If a new item costs less than a repair then why repair it?

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What I don't understand is why any company should be required to provide help to an end user to repair their products. The folks who make your coffee makers don't - the folks who make your shoes and clothing don't - the folks who make your cars don't (at least not for free) so why should your phone or computer manufacturers have to?

If you can spot a bad component in a circuit or identify a chip you can get enough information to do most anything with any product. My advice is to educate yourself.

[thalassa]

Re: Consumers lose once again

What I don't understand is why any company should be required to provide help to an end user to repair their products. The folks who make your coffee makers don't - the folks who make your shoes and clothing don't - the folks who make your cars don't (at least not for free) so why should your phone or computer manufacturers have to?

Because companies have been making things for too long without regard to what happens to the junk they make monstrous profits off of for too long. E-waste, plastics, and metals are a huge waste stream problem. If your company purposely makes things to break so that consumers have to buy new ones every 6-12 months, then yeah, your company either a) needs to be held responsible for the disposal of said product--whether it's a coffee maker or a phone or b) should be responsible for providing a way for consumers to update those products that are updatable. Throwing things away is a luxury we aren't going to have forever, municipalities can't afford to have large-scale programs to handle it, and most consumers don't have the resources or abilities to handle it themselves.

If you make it, you take responsibility for it at the end of its life cycle.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Because companies have been making things for too long without regard to what happens to the junk they make monstrous profits off of for too long. E-waste, plastics, and metals are a huge waste stream problem. If your company purposely makes things to break so that consumers have to buy new ones every 6-12 months, then yeah, your company either a) needs to be held responsible for the disposal of said product--whether it's a coffee maker or a phone or b) should be responsible for providing a way for consumers to update those products that are updatable. Throwing things away is a luxury we aren't going to have forever, municipalities can't afford to have large-scale programs to handle it, and most consumers don't have the resources or abilities to handle it themselves.

If you make it, you take responsibility for it at the end of its life cycle.

This.

Also, it's funny that DragonsFriend brought up clothing, because clothing waste is a huge problem for a lot of municipalities, and it needs to get addressed soon. In addition, a lot of the processes used to create and dye textiles is really damaging to the environment, which is never priced into the cost of a 2 for $10 tank top that falls apart after a few washes.

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From what I've read they will become even harder to repair because glue is being used on the new models, instead of screws or clips.

I would like to see tech be created so that it can be mechanically upgraded instead of being replaced.

I'm all for modular tech. I like being able to replace and upgrade specific parts as I need to.

[thalassa]

Re: Consumers lose once again

This.

Also, it's funny that DragonsFriend brought up clothing, because clothing waste is a huge problem for a lot of municipalities, and it needs to get addressed soon. In addition, a lot of the processes used to create and dye textiles is really damaging to the environment, which is never priced into the cost of a 2 for $10 tank top that falls apart after a few washes.

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.

Not to mention that washing synthetic fabrics are a huge problem when it comes to microplastics and water treatment...but, as usual, companies don't want to take responsibility for their products.

Another problem is manufacturing chemicals--chemicals invented and made for industrial processes that are never tested toxicologically before use for its affects on workers or the environment or into the waste stream.

The thought, of course, is that if you don't know, you can't be held accountable until someone else does the work of testing and research.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Not to mention that washing synthetic fabrics are a huge problem when it comes to microplastics and water treatment...but, as usual, companies don't want to take responsibility for their products.

Another problem is manufacturing chemicals--chemicals invented and made for industrial processes that are never tested toxicologically before use for its affects on workers or the environment or into the waste stream.

The thought, of course, is that if you don't know, you can't be held accountable until someone else does the work of testing and research.

Exactly.

It's a problem in a lot of industries, including tech, textiles, agriculture, and home accessories. A lot of the products on the shelves right now are cheap in order to be competitive, but they do not cover the costs of the damage they cause. In reality, most things should be more expensive, which in itself fosters a "repair" mentality, as no one wants to spend thousands on a new TV or hundreds for a Blu-ray player that is going to break after a few years and can't be repaired. If you spend that kind of money and you're an average person, you're making an investment in that product for a longer period of time.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: Consumers lose once again

Exactly.

It's a problem in a lot of industries, including tech, textiles, agriculture, and home accessories. A lot of the products on the shelves right now are cheap in order to be competitive, but they do not cover the costs of the damage they cause. In reality, most things should be more expensive, which in itself fosters a "repair" mentality, as no one wants to spend thousands on a new TV or hundreds for a Blu-ray player that is going to break after a few years and can't be repaired. If you spend that kind of money and you're an average person, you're making an investment in that product for a longer period of time.

If you are aware of such practices or others then it is your responsibility not to buy the product. That's the way free enterprise works. The manufacturers who produce the best product at the best price gets to stay in business. If you support manufacturers who produce crap or use methods you don't approve of then you are the one creating the problem.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Consumers lose once again

If you are aware of such practices or others then it is your responsibility not to buy the product. That's the way free enterprise works. The manufacturers who produce the best product at the best price gets to stay in business. If you support manufacturers who produce crap or use methods you don't approve of then you are the one creating the problem.

You don't know, going in, for the most part. Now, with textiles, there's also a big producer of waste called the fashion industry, prompting people to dress differently every year whether their clothing has worn out or not. As far as other things, you just don't know. I had a desktop pc crap out after 3 years and another one was still chugging along after 13. Same brand.

I have dishes, cookware, silverware, etc. that's probably older than a lot of the members of this forum and it's held up great - that was pretty much luck. I've heard that newer Pyrex can shatter going from hot to cold. A lot of products were changed at the formulaic level a few decades ago due to environmental controls placed on the manufacturing process, and this made a shorter-lived product.