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    UK Votes to Leave the EU

    What the actual hell is this mess?


    #2
    Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

    I am gutted. I suspect a lot of people who voted to leave will deeply regret this in the years to come.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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      #3
      Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

      Democracy.
      Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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        #4
        Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

        Originally posted by Denarius View Post
        Democracy.
        Sure, and I respect their right to decide the future of their country. Doesn't mean I have to agree with their final decision or that I can't be seriously worried about the future of the UK and the EU.

        I have a feeling that this will bring in Scottish independence. A huge reason a lot of people supported independence is because of a fear of leaving the EU, as well as scary politics in the south. Scotland largely voted to stay in the EU and still really wants to be a part of it.
        Last edited by DanieMarie; 23 Jun 2016, 22:32.

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          #5
          Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

          Honestly, if this is a serious threat to the stability of the EU then it isn't stable at all and proves that they're right to leave.

          The UK will be fine, worst comes to worst they can always count on being the 51st state. The only thing that is seriously at risk is open migration, and I consider that a good thing.
          Last edited by Denarius; 23 Jun 2016, 22:53.
          Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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            #6
            Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

            What I don't understand is how a 51.9% to 48.1% vote can be valid? Here, when deciding something like that (which, to the people who don't understamd this, has a HUGE effect on both the uk and the rest of us) it has to be 2/3 of the votes for to change it.

            Denarius. The value of both the pound and the euro has already dropped historicaly low. I doubt they'd want to be a part of the US, this is about 'taking back the country' and freedom. I doubt the English would see that as a step forwards.
            Last edited by iris; 23 Jun 2016, 23:04.
            You remind me of the babe
            What babe?
            The babe with the power
            What power?
            The Power of voodoo
            Who do?
            You do!
            Do what?
            Remind me of the babe!

            Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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              #7
              Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

              Originally posted by iris View Post
              Denarius. The value of both the pound and the euro has already dropped historicaly low.
              Still above the dollar.

              I doubt they'd want to be a part of the US, this is about 'taking back the country' and freedom. I doubt the English would see that as a step forwards.
              Exactly, it's a step backward. My point is that if they need to, they have that option. A safety net.
              Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                #8
                Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                Actually, there are huge issues for the UK that come with this decision. The first is that the very reasons that many people voted "leave" aren't even feasible. The Leave camp doesn't want to play by the EU's rules, but the EU will still be one of the UK's largest trading partners (as is the case with other non-EU European countries) and therefore will still have to offer products that fit EU standards.

                The migrant issue is a huge pack of lies. First of all, open migration from within the EU has been nothing but helpful. It's a massive lie that people from Eastern Europe come in and steal (insert name of country here) jobs. Some people from those countries do jobs that no one else wants to do (cleaning, farm labour), but a lot more of them are doing the same jobs as (insert name of country here) citizens, such as programmers, hospital workers, engineers, etc. A lot of EU citizens in the UK also come from places like Germany and Ireland and live there for work or because of relationships. Second, the idea that they undercut wages is more complicated than a lot of people make it out to be. EU citizens living in EU countries are supposed to be treated equally, which means that it's not technically allowed to pay one nationality less than locals. A lot of companies get away with it, but that doesn't mean it's legal. Combatting this practice would be a better way to tackle this issue. Third, although there are lots of people from EU countries living in the UK, PLENTY of British citizens live in the EU. And those people benefit from being allowed to stay in those places without a visa. Fourth, the people who were afraid of the refugee situation really should have had their facts straight before voting. The UK never had to comply with EU quotas for refugees and chose its own number to accept, which is why it only took in 10,000 (compared to the 1 million that Germany took in). The UK actually gets exceptions to a lot of EU decisions, due to the special relationship it negotiated when it joined in the first place.

                The EU has been good for things like workers rights, environmental protections, support for local culture, and trade within the continent. The UK just voted to leave that, and that will have consequences.

                And while it's true that the EU has problems, leaving will not fix those problems (and again, the UK will still have to comply with many EU rules in order to keep trading with Europe, only now it doesn't get a vote). And to say that leaving is a good solution because it's unstable ignores the dangerous political problems within Europe, which mostly have to do with the rise of the far right. You don't fight the far right by buying into a campaign largely supported by a far right party like UKIP; you fight it by showing solidarity and working together to achieve reform. Perhaps we'll go in that direction, now. If we do, we can probably save the EU and keep other countries experiencing far-right wing hysteria from leaving (many left-wing Euro-skeptic parties such as Greece's Syriza largely support staying in the EU...they just want to see changes within the EU).

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by Denarius View Post



                Exactly, it's a step backward. My point is that if they need to, they have that option. A safety net.
                Contrary to popular belief, not everyone wants to be a part of the US. And I highly doubt a country that just voted to leave a political and economic union on grounds of sovereignty would ever join another country overseas.

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                  #9
                  Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                  Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                  Honestly, if this is a serious threat to the stability of the EU then it isn't stable at all and proves that they're right to leave.

                  The UK will be fine, worst comes to worst they can always count on being the 51st state. The only thing that is seriously at risk is open migration, and I consider that a good thing.
                  I'm not upset that we're leaving but EU migration was not an issue for our economy. It is illegal migration from elsewhere that our government already can't control that is a problem. They won't be any better at 'tightening our boarders' just because we left the EU.

                  I think the number of people from overseas living on our isles will bearly change. I honestly believe it's a good thing that the British people had their say and incidentally I voted leave and I stand by that vote, but if this was solely motivated by immigration then I'm very disappointed in my fellow countrymen.
                  夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                    #10
                    Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                    Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                    Still above the dollar.



                    Exactly, it's a step backward. My point is that if they need to, they have that option. A safety net.
                    I fail to see how it being above the dollar is in any way relevant. It's historically low, as in the lowest ever. That's just plain bad.

                    As for america being a safety net, I don't see that happening. It's more likely they'll work out a partnership with the EU much like the one they just left. Except, as Danie says, without voting rights.
                    the leave campaign thay I've seen has largely been built on rumours, fearmongering and outright lies.

                    Personally, I'm nervous to see what'll happen next. My bighest chance of finding work is in England, and that was pretty easy before because I didn't need s visa. I think they may very well find they're actually a bit low on work force soon enough if it gets too complicated working there as an outsider now. But that's just speculations.
                    anyway, read what Danie wrote, she clearly knows more about it than I do.
                    You remind me of the babe
                    What babe?
                    The babe with the power
                    What power?
                    The Power of voodoo
                    Who do?
                    You do!
                    Do what?
                    Remind me of the babe!

                    Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

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                      #11
                      Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                      Gotta say as someone who was undecided right up until the cross went in the box, I'm a bit miffed that those of you with such strong opinions never thought to discuss them until AFTER the results were out... cheers for that.
                      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                        #12
                        Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                        Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                        Some people from those countries do jobs that no one else wants to do (cleaning, farm labour),
                        As someone who has done both, that is the massive lie. There are always people who want jobs, especially low skill ones. It's largely businesses who don't want to hire anyone local. Though, I am basing this off the US job market where we have to compete with illegals who are incredibly easy to exploit.

                        but a lot more of them are doing the same jobs as (insert name of country here) citizens, such as programmers, hospital workers, engineers, etc. A lot of EU citizens in the UK also come from places like Germany and Ireland and live there for work or because of relationships.
                        If they are qualified and skilled workers with no real problems in their backgrounds, they will have very few problems.

                        Third, although there are lots of people from EU countries living in the UK, PLENTY of British citizens live in the EU. And those people benefit from being allowed to stay in those places without a visa.
                        Then the EU should get to work on fixing its serious visa problem.

                        support for local culture
                        By allowing anyone to live anywhere? I'm sure that's great for local culture. It's not like it's the people who make the culture or anything.

                        And to say that leaving is a good solution because it's unstable ignores the dangerous political problems within Europe, which mostly have to do with the rise of the far right.
                        From where I stand, the problems are coming from Islamism. Political unrest, terrorism, skyrocketing rates of sexual assault and hate crimes against women and the LGBT community as well as the return of antisemitism to Germany.

                        You don't fight the far right by buying into a campaign largely supported by a far right party like UKIP; you fight it by showing solidarity and working together to achieve reform. Perhaps we'll go in that direction, now. If we do, we can probably save the EU and keep other countries experiencing far-right wing hysteria from leaving
                        I assume this isn't addressed at me, because I'm considered far-right by American standards. Which, if I recall correctly, you perceive as being (significantly?) more right-leaning on average.
                        Last edited by Denarius; 23 Jun 2016, 23:56.
                        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                          Honestly, I didn't think it would really happen. I knew that polls were close, but polls are often flawed and people tend to go with what they know at the last minute (look what happened in Scotland). I didn't know anyone who voted "leave" (until now, that is) and pretty much everyone I know is strongly against it. I sort of failed to consider the bias of the Brits in my social circle, which is made up entirely of people who currently live or have lived in other EU countries.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                          As someone who has done both, that is the massive lie. There are always people who want jobs, especially low skill ones. It's largely businesses who don't want to hire anyone local. Though, I am basing this off the US job market where we have to compete with illegals who are incredibly easy to exploit.



                          If they are qualified and skilled workers with no real problems in their backgrounds, they will have very few problems.



                          Then the EU should get to work on fixing its serious visa problem.



                          By allowing anyone to live anywhere? I'm sure that's great for local culture. It's not like it's the people who make the culture or anything.



                          From where I stand, the problems are coming from Islamism. Political unrest, terrorism, skyrocketing rates of sexual assault and hate crimes against women and the LGBT community as well as the return of antisemitism to Germany.



                          I assume this isn't addressed at me, because I'm considered far-right by American standards. Which, if I recall correctly, you perceive as being (significantly?) more right-leaning on average.
                          There is such thing as a general "you."

                          Anyway, if you think inter-EU migration is a serious problem in the UK or the remaining EU countries, you need to get your facts straight.

                          And by your statement on supporting local cultures, you showed just how little about the EU you actually know. That statement was meant to address the huge amount of funding that goes to supporting arts and traditional cultures within the EU. It also was meant to address the support in terms of funding and protection that goes to regional products, from Champagne from France (EU law dictates that no other wine is allowed to be called that), to pickles from Spreewald here in Germany (ditto). Those regions get funding from the EU to produce traditional products in traditional ways, and without that money they probably wouldn't be able to compete with standardized industrial products. The UK has plenty of traditional local products that rely on EU funding. They won't get that anymore. As for arts, apparently few British cultural organizations actually apply for EU arts and culture funding, but it was always an option open to them, and that money supports traditional local arts and culture in many countries.

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                            #14
                            Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                            DanieMarie that remark about doing jobs nobody wants is an absolute lie and downright offensive. EU migrants make up just about 5% of the UK population. Are you saying they all do cleaning jobs and farm labour, and that all cleaning and farm labour jobs are done by migrants? Because that is just not true and really quite low. My wife is, at this moment, doing cleaning work for an agency at a boarding school between jobs, whilst over Christmas I had to make ends meet working in a confectionery factory where my job was literally placing marshmallows into a plastic grid box. For eight hours.

                            I voted Remain, for the record. I've been away for a while but I'm surprised there has been no Brexit thread here. Watch religious tolerance in the UK decline. Tylluan, I've got to ask, where on earth do you think those grants that help pay for the spread, education and development of the Welsh language are going to come from, since they came from the EU before?

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            DanieMarie that remark about doing jobs nobody wants is an absolute lie and downright offensive. EU migrants make up just about 5% of the UK population. Are you saying they all do cleaning jobs and farm labour, and that all cleaning and farm labour jobs are done by migrants? Because that is just not true and really quite low. My wife is, at this moment, doing cleaning work for an agency at a boarding school between jobs, whilst over Christmas I had to make ends meet working in a confectionery factory where my job was literally placing marshmallows into a plastic grid box. For eight hours.

                            I voted Remain, for the record. I've been away for a while but I'm surprised there has been no Brexit thread here. Watch religious tolerance in the UK decline. Sorry ignore that last bit about grants for Welsh if you saw it, I mixed up Jembru's position with Tylluan's. Unfortunately, Wales voted massively to leave, really shooting itself in the feet, but as it is full of elderly people, this is not very surprising.
                            I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                            Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                            But that day you know I left my money
                            And I thought of you only
                            All that copper glowing fine

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                              #15
                              Re: UK Votes to Leave the EU

                              I didn't mean that that is all that EU migrants do (in fact, I said that most *don't* do those jobs), and maybe "no one wants" was poor wording, because I also know British people who have done those jobs (one friend's family are all farmers, actually). But there are huge labour gaps in those fields. I'm guessing it's not too different to here. My boyfriend used to work as a cleaner between jobs and he worked alongside a lot of other Germans, but the labour pool wasn't quite big enough to fill the demand. Likewise, I spend a lot of time working on farms, and there aren't enough farm workers from Germany to fill the need for farm labour. Perhaps labour gaps would have been a better term.

                              And my statement still stands about pay. EU law demands that all EU citizens be treated equally, which means that they are to be paid equally. If that is not happening (and I agree that it is not, and it happens to British people on the continent as well) that needs to be addressed. Wage inequality for the same work is illegal in the EU and infringements on that law should be punished.

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