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Thread: Ideas don't die.

  1. #21
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    This is a problem created by Imperialism and Middle East destruction. We keep talking about what we need to do about ISIS but what is the West going to do about the conditions it is responsible for in those countries. The genocide of millions. The destruction of countries. We can keep crying and somehow acting shocked that after a generation of intervention and destruction people are stiking back. And it may not be right and it may be horrible but how the fuck can we act surprised?

    I don't get it. We are going to continue the same course of "intervention" and no amount of education and inclusion will stop someone from hitting us back.

  2. #22
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    Acceptance and tolerance has to go both ways.
    But it has to start SOMEWHERE.

    And the only somewhere its going to start is with the people that recognize that it needs to happen and have the capacity to do so.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
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    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  3. #23
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    The four groups you name don't cause problems. They live by the law of the land. They don't kill people just because of their religious beliefs.
    We don't have to be the same to get along but it is necessary to live with respect for the laws of the country in which on lives.
    Saying it is OK, or necessary, to kill others whose beliefs are different is against the law in all but a few nations.

  4. #24
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
    This is a problem created by Imperialism and Middle East destruction. We keep talking about what we need to do about ISIS but what is the West going to do about the conditions it is responsible for in those countries. The genocide of millions. The destruction of countries. We can keep crying and somehow acting shocked that after a generation of intervention and destruction people are stiking back. And it may not be right and it may be horrible but how the fuck can we act surprised?

    I don't get it. We are going to continue the same course of "intervention" and no amount of education and inclusion will stop someone from hitting us back.
    I don't disagree with that, either. But living here and having seen a lot of issues arise in immigrant communities (a lot of terrorism has come from people living in Europe for quite a while and even people born over here are identifying with ISIS), I think inclusion and education goes a long way. Because if you have an education system that doesn't do a lot to teach people the local language (I can't speak for France, but in Germany students who used to speak German as a second language often got left behind in school), marginalize communities in ghetto-like settings and discriminate against people from different backgrounds so that they can't find meaningful work, you have a recipe for bad things. You're going to get a lot of frustrated young men with a lot of time on their hands. It's why riots happen from time to time, and ultimately it's why people who live on this side of the world are identifying with terrorist groups.

    Continental Europe hasn't had anywhere near the same level of involvement in the Middle East as the US and the UK have (that's not to say we haven't had any, but it's -definitely- not to the same scale). And living here and seeing how communities get marginalized, I think how we treat our immigrants and people of colour at home plays a big role.

  5. #25
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    Exactly. Which is against the teachings of radical Islam. Which is entirely the point I was making. Muslim boarding school bans students from meeting outsiders. Gay asylum seekers face threat from fellow refugees. Muslim migrants fan European antisemitism. Cruelty in the Quran.



    Acceptance and tolerance has to go both ways.
    This is the problem with the UK public school system (not the US one - that's different) - they're never allowed to meet boys. Or girls.
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    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

  6. #26
    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: Ideas don't die.

    In the USA, parents who want that kind of isolationism will homeschool or send their kids to private schools.

    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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