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Thread: Transgender parents rights

  1. #11
    Lord Contrarian Denarius's Avatar
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    Even progressive countries who are changing the laws for transpeople are struggling with accommodating the entire gender spectrum.
    What purpose is there in legally recognizing gender identity? As far as I am concerned that is a social issue and not a federal issue.
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    Because by legally recognizing gender identity, the country recognizes that those are groups of people whose rights also need to be protected.

  3. #13
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    They are already recognized by the state as people whose rights need to be protected, that's what citizenship is.
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    But clearly it's not working. By not recognizing trans people, we're basically forcing them into their birth genders. In order to be able to switch genders on your passport or reserve the right to use the "other" bathroom or be listed on a birth certificate as a child's mother instead of his/her father, you have to recognize that trans people exist as a group.

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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    All things covered under identifying them based on sex. The Finnish passport is male and female, not masculine and feminine. Bathrooms are a matter of anatomic function, thus would (or should) be sex based.

    I don't know about birth certificates in Finland, but I would assume it would be sex based. I don't remember ever seeing a "demi-boy" or "aerogender" box to tick.
    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

  6. #16
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    I had written an entire post addressing 2 points several days ago, I posted it...and its not here. Which is weird.

    A person can't legally change genders without going through certain hormone therapy and surgical procedures that render you sterile.
    But basically, this idea^ is not universally true.

    I don't have time for all the links, but basically, there are a number of states and countries where you don't have to be on hormone therapy or have had reassignment surgery to change your legal gender. There are a number of reasons for this--not everyone is a good candidate for either, not all persons can afford it, and not all persons want to go through either process for a variety of reasons, including, some persons still want biological children.


    Additionally, there are a number of legal rights as well as private and public services that are gender-based.

    All things covered under identifying them based on sex. The Finnish passport is male and female, not masculine and feminine. Bathrooms are a matter of anatomic function, thus would (or should) be sex based.
    And this is where you miss the boat completely.

    No one looks in your pants when they check ID. They check what you look like and whether that matches the information on your ID and treat you on the basis of how that does or does not match their preconceived notions.
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  7. #17
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    I had written an entire post addressing 2 points several days ago, I posted it...and its not here. Which is weird.



    But basically, this idea^ is not universally true.

    I don't have time for all the links, but basically, there are a number of states and countries where you don't have to be on hormone therapy or have had reassignment surgery to change your legal gender. There are a number of reasons for this--not everyone is a good candidate for either, not all persons can afford it, and not all persons want to go through either process for a variety of reasons, including, some persons still want biological children.


    Additionally, there are a number of legal rights as well as private and public services that are gender-based.



    And this is where you miss the boat completely.

    No one looks in your pants when they check ID. They check what you look like and whether that matches the information on your ID and treat you on the basis of how that does or does not match their preconceived notions.
    In Germany, you can declare gender neutral on your passport or ID if you want to. I'm not sure about your identified sex vs your biological sex, though. Still, to get that far, you have to recognize that not everyone fits into the binary male and female genders that they were born with and that people don't may need some government policies that protect their rights.

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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    Rights are never provided by government. Governments provide privileges and government can remove those privileges because they are the source. Rights are provided by nature and there are example of most natural rights throughout nature. If you have a right to change gender (toads do it naturally) then government has no place accept to protect those rights. They rarely do a good job of it. That means that you must protect your rights and you are given the means to do so. If you choose not to protect your rights then they are forfeit until you are willing to fight to get them back.
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Denarius View Post
    All things covered under identifying them based on sex. The Finnish passport is male and female, not masculine and feminine. Bathrooms are a matter of anatomic function, thus would (or should) be sex based.

    I don't know about birth certificates in Finland, but I would assume it would be sex based. I don't remember ever seeing a "demi-boy" or "aerogender" box to tick.
    Anatomic function? First, I'm going to give you the reacher stick once again. Second, the toilet bowls are the same. Yeah you get a stand up one also but not only. Because anatomically we all peepee and poo poo the same way. We both 'gasp' also have urethra and rectum. Who would have thunk it.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Transgender parents rights

    The idea of "natural rights" is about as laughable as the commercial for the square potty...except that the square potty commercial is legitimately funny. The idea of "natural rights" is nothing but Enlightenment Era romanticism. What we call "rights" are nothing but societally conferred and government codified agreements to those actions that individuals ought to be engaged in with minimal interference. And that changes over time.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

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