They are willing to destroy this country

[B. de Corbin]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

Legit people, i have a spare room. You have to share it with the turtle but I'm sure you won't mind.

And because of ya'll and this trump nonsense, an Australia led by Pauline Hanson is actually a possibility. WHY GUYS

I like turtles. I'm a certified member of the Turtle Rescue Squad - I stop on the road and save snappers on their way to breading in the spring

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

...but we weren't when Obama was doing it, because judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin is now racist.

Is it really? Like really?

I don't know man. You know whats really racist? I'd say criminal justice system that disproportionately targets people of color. An economic system that disproportionately oppresses people of color. Gentrification. Cops killing minorities and not facing a single charge. I mean the system actively works to reduce the power of black voters. Obama didn't do much about that either and extended injustice in a lot of circumstances so this not a defense of him. When, in the history of this nation as skin color not mattered? I'll fucking wait.

[anunitu]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

I myself am a bit amazed that Repubs say he is a little crazy,and then go on to make excuses for his actions. Like having a pet dog with rabies and defending it when it bites someone.

[Denarius]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

criminal justice system that disproportionately targets people of color.

That's one explanation for the fact that African Americans make up less than fifteen percent of the population, but commit more than fifty percent of murders.

An economic system that disproportionately oppresses people of color.

...but also an education system that disproportionately benefits black and hispanic students, at the expense of white and asian students. African Americans are also disproportionately benefited by welfare, even compared to other minority groups. Whites are underrepresented.

Gentrification.

Which is a good thing for the neighborhoods and the people living in them, regardless of race.

Cops killing minorities and not facing a single charge.

There are a lot of problems there to unpack and deal with as a nation, but I see it mostly as a class issue and a city issue.

I mean the system actively works to reduce the power of black voters.

According to the article not doing it is racist and bad, but doing it is just as racist and bad and they don't offer an alternative. No way to win, so why worry about it?

Also, the other usual charge of rigging against minorities is also BS.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

That's one explanation for the fact that African Americans make up less than fifteen percent of the population, but commit more than fifty percent of murders.

Crime is largely an economic and class issue. When you consider that a higher proportion of inner cities are poor and black you can't tell me you wouldn't expect murder rates to reflect that. And you couldn't tell me it wouldn't be different if whites were in a reverse position unless you believe that blacks are just predisposed to violence.

...but also an education system that disproportionately benefits black and hispanic students, at the expense of white and asian students. African Americans are also disproportionately benefited by welfare, even compared to other minority groups. Whites are underrepresented.

BECAUSE MINORITIES AND ESPECIALLY BLACKS ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY POVERTY DUDE

Which is a good thing for the neighborhoods and the people living in them, regardless of race.

Have you ever lived in New York City? I have. Brooklyn, former working class borough, just try to pay rent on a workers salary. Try to pay rent in Harlem on a working class salary. Try it in the Bronx, the cheapest borough. I lived in the Bronx. $1200 a month for a shoebox in Hunts Point. Working class wages do not reflect the astronomical rent increases. Gentrification has systematically wiped out working class neighborhoods and turned them over to developers. Congratulations, you're neighborhood has a trendy new coffee shop and a bunch of hipster transplants. Too bad you won't afford to live here in six months.

There are a lot of problems there to unpack and deal with as a nation, but I see it mostly as a class issue and a city issue.

Of course it's a class issue. It's also a race issue. It's intersectional. But, if you see this as a class issue than you must see all these other points as class issues. Unless, you are just using class in this instance to prop up your heavily racist argument.

According to the article not doing it is racist and bad, but doing it is just as racist and bad and they don't offer an alternative. No way to win, so why worry about it?

Also, the other usual charge of rigging against minorities is also BS.

The fact that districts are heavily gerrymandered in regards to race is not even in question so don't even try it. Let's look at a map.

And even WaPo sides against you on Voter ID laws.

And the messed up thing is these issues are real. Undeniably. You're not simply being a contrarian. You are marginalizing the experience and struggles that people affected by these issues deal with every day. You say they don't exist. You argue they don't matter. But millions experience them everyday. That's fucked up.

[Denarius]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

Crime is largely an economic and class issue.

I absolutely agree, though tribalism does play a role. Not to say that people are racist, or rather that to the extent such a thing matters it is mutual, so much as multiculturalism is a failed system.

And you couldn't tell me it wouldn't be different if whites were in a reverse position unless you believe that blacks are just predisposed to violence.

If such a thing is true, and I can't find any data to back up either way, then it is likely a confluence of issues. I could certainly point to increased testosterone, the degradation of the black family and how that relates to r/K Selection Theory, the so called "Warrior gene," or just refer to the above critique of multiculturalism... but it's a moot point as it has no bearing on my wanting to judge people on their own merits.

BECAUSE MINORITIES AND ESPECIALLY BLACKS ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTED BY POVERTY DUDE

...but, as is the main point I was making, even accounting for class African Americans get proportiately more welfare than Hispanic and Asian Americans.

Try to pay rent in Harlem on a working class salary. Try it in the Bronx, the cheapest borough. I lived in the Bronx.

The housing market, and the increasingly shat upon working class are complex issues. Worker Productivity vs Earnings compared to raising cost of living is concerning. However, much of that comes back to illegal immigration and ultimately welfare or more specifically incompetent government involvement in the economy. In my opinion, of course.

It's intersectional.

It's many things, issues are complicated. Race and class play a role, to be sure. However I haven't been convinced that this is, to any great extent, a problem of racism and classism. Certainly not one-sided, either.

your heavily racist argument.

I disagree with this assessment as, again I will point out, ultimately I see no reason to judge people on the basis of race over personal merit. However, I do think that given the nature of racial tensions in America some degree of segregation (to use a dirty word) would be helpful. At the very least more black run businesses, especially the police, in black neighborhoods will help to alleviate some of this tension. As I don't see this distrust abating from either side anytime soon.

Keep in mind that I live in a such a segregated area, a reservation. Many whites live in similar segregation in gated communities, as is well known.

The fact that districts are heavily gerrymandered in regards to race is not even in question so don't even try it. Let's look at a map.

It is also a fact that race is a major predictor of partisanship. Have an issue with gerrymandering if you like, but I don't see racism as being the major driving force here. Partisanship is, race is incidental.

And the messed up thing is these issues are real. Undeniably.

I don't doubt it. I just think that many are blown out of proportion, understudied, and oversimplified.

You're not simply being a contrarian. You are marginalizing the experience and struggles that people affected by these issues deal with every day.

Friendly reminder that I am a working class minority. I am contextualizing, and providing my opinion of, experiences that I participate in to the extent that I do participate in them while providing citations to support arguments for that which I do not.

You say they don't exist.

I say that I am not convinced that certain parts of certain things happen for certain reasons, especially given my understanding that certain things are at play to greater or lesser extents. Not quite the same thing, I'd say.

You argue they don't matter.

I argue that feels shouldn't matter more than reals, that social equality should be enshrined in our laws not social justice.

Against permanent and simple solutions to temporary and complicated problems.

That people should be judged by the content of their character not the color of their skin.

[Heka]

I like turtles. I'm a certified member of the Turtle Rescue Squad - I stop on the road and save snappers on their way to breading in the spring

I do this too! When the dam dries up they turtles 'migrate' to the shit pit out of town and have to cross roads and the main highway. Turtle savers!!!

[B. de Corbin]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

I do this too! When the dam dries up they turtles 'migrate' to the shit pit out of town and have to cross roads and the main highway. Turtle savers!!!

Here, in the spring, the females return to the place from which they hatched to lay their own eggs. We see a lot of red-eared sliders (common pond turtle), and snappers. It's the only time you see snappers out of the water.

[Heka]

Here, in the spring, the females return to the place from which they hatched to lay their own eggs. We see a lot of red-eared sliders (common pond turtle), and snappers. It's the only time you see snappers out of the water.

We only have murray short necks really. And they're kinda introduced. Most of the damns etc had them deposited way back when. We're too far from any water sources otherwise.

[anunitu]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

Thank you for diverting my attention to politics with cute turtle stories..

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Just saw this on Google news..and it seems Mr. Orange has begun to become paranoid of everything.

Trump Accuses Obama of Wiretapping Trump Tower During Campaign.

Story here.

[Denarius]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

Just saw this on Google news..and it seems Mr. Orange has begun to become paranoid of everything.

Trump Accuses Obama of Wiretapping Trump Tower During Campaign.

Story here.

Or, you know, he's the President and would have access to that information.

If you think he's lying, say that. If you want proof, say that. The idea that he's just being paranoid is ridiculous.

[anunitu]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

It "Might" be possible that the NSA did a wiretap on him,BUT then it "Might" be possible they wiretapped Everyone..

[anunitu]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

I should most likely not judge a man who chased after birth certificates,and said Obama was a secret Muslim in the Muslim Brotherhood...who was secretly seeding his administration with spies and fellow travelers. No paranoia there to see.

[Denarius]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

I should most likely not judge a man who chased after birth certificates

Which was A: Started by Hillary Clinton's Campaign, and B: Proven to have some degree of validity.

said Obama was a secret Muslim in the Muslim Brotherhood

He brought up the possibility, in the context of explaining what the earlier could be hiding.

He never actually said that he believed it was the case, merely a possibility. Which it very well is, given that Obama is hiding something.

who was secretly seeding his administration with spies and fellow travelers.

Which is about as credible as Trump being a Russian agent and urine connoisseur, actually a lot more so given the corruption in the DNC and how shady our government is.

[anunitu]

Re: They are willing to destroy this country

So,we should just scrap our Government and replace it with what exactly?

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Some of the things Obama has been accused of are so stupid in their attempt to discredit..secret Gay, hiding this in the white house...these seem so much like the Homophobic attempt to divert from the accusers own secret issues....

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And the statement that Obama "MUST" be hiding something,how otherwise to explain the black man becoming President?