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Problems With Millennials

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    #16
    Re: Problems With Millennials

    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    You're probably right - I actually was more attracted to the theory, than group definitions, and I was just thinking aloud about whether it actually made sense to define groups by decades. I figured it does.

    But how you describe the groups - even if people use the same term ("Millenial"), is ill defined. How that term is defined is going to be based what the definer wants to find. For example, a person interested in technology will make general or statistical statements about technology, somebody interest in quisine will talk about upper-level eating experiences.

    Then, info gathered from a variety of locations, in a variety of ways is smoochted together to create an average that ends applying (approximated), at best, only to a limited number of people. Too much data, if carelessly collected and/or collated, except, maybe, as a cheap line tossed out - "Those Millenials are so socially awkward..."

    So, yeah. You are looking at somethings, and this or that article about those same things is going to cause an automatic comparison between what the author says and your experience. The biggest sweeping generalizations give you the least accurate (in terms of % match to a specific individual) information.
    I think you're more or less right there. I just used the dates usually used by polling and research groups and the characteristics usually matched with "Millennials." I think those characteristics aren't really great descriptors, either. Usually, they describe a certain set of 20-somethings from a certain socio-economic background living in urban areas. I don't think it necessarily represents the views or experiences of young people living in rural areas, people of colour, people from less economically privileged backgrounds, or most people between the ages of 30-37. Those are all smaller parts of the greater group, so the averages aren't so likely to reflect them, if that makes sense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
    I'll be 60 in a few months and I use social media a lot. The difference between people my age and the younger generations is, I remember life without it. (I remember life before the Beatles, so.....) I can't imagine growing up with smartphones! So the perspective is totally different.
    Heyyyy I remember life without it too! We had a computer since I could remember (my dad was a big fan of computers since the early 80s and was convinced they were the way of the future...he's still an early adopter of technology), but it wasn't really the same as it has been over the past decade or so. I mean, Facebook only became available internationally in late 2006 or early 2007, and I was 22 at the time. I used MySpace for a while before that, but we definitely didn't have anything like that before I was in college. I think that's one way older Millennials feel a little different from younger ones, though. We remember stuff like making mixed tapes from the radio, scheduling our lives around our favourite shows (or programming the VCR to tape them if that failed), and how getting the internet at home was totally new and a big deal (our family was one of the first in my whole town, but I still remember how huge it was). All of that also places us at a certain date because VCRs and cassettes weren't widely available before the 80s, but it's something we have in common with Gen Xers.

    To be honest, I don't know if I want to let my kids have smartphones before a certain age. On one hand, I don't want to disadvantage them by not teaching them how to use the technology that everyone else uses, but on the other hand, there's a lot of research about how they can stunt development. I'm definitely leaning towards "no." I mean, we didn't grow up with them and we learned to use them pretty quickly. The idea of my kids growing up with smartphones and social networking kind of terrifies me.

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      #17
      Re: Problems With Millennials

      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
      I'm completely disinterested in making sweeping generalizations about groups of people because I find it to be completely useless to me - I have to deal with individuals, not huge groups. But if I was, say, selling trendy junk, it would be a different story.

      Anyway, a couple of theoretical points come to mind -

      1. If you take a vast number of people, measure a specific trait, then divide by the number of individuals measured, you get a thing called and "average." The funny thing about averages is that they give a moderately crude description of "the group," but no individual in the group may actually match the average. The upshot about this is that, no matter what you say about "a group," there will always be individual - maybe even ALL the individuals in the group, who do not match the description.

      This seems like this would make the use of "averages" completely useless, but it doesn't - it depends completely on what you are using the particular average for.

      2. There is a thing called "the zeitgeist," or "the spirit of the age." This is a general average attitude toward various things, created through a particular culture, accumulated through things like: education, the arts, pop culture, and intellectual trends. Notice that I've called this "a general average."

      The zeitgeist does, for a variety of reasons, tend to shift (at least a bit) from one generation to another - large shifts tend to occur in cultures with ready access to mass communication, so there is some sense in defining 'generation this" or "generation that." But whether that is useful or not, again, depends on what are using the generalization for - if you are dealing with large groups the information will be much more useful than when dealing with individuals.
      Those are actually two excellent points you made there that I wasn't thinking of, and I do agree with you.

      Do you also feel, like me, that the guy in the video wasn't actually talking about 'averages' and a 'zeitgeist'? He seems under the impression that people aren't happy with their jobs today, but they used to love work, on average, way more in the past. He seems to equate making children feel special, to them being disappointed in their future work life.

      I continued watching all the video by the way, and while he seems to make good points about how humans in general should connect with each other and form relationships, he still seems to make a connection that's not there between a certain generation and a specific problem found in society. That's what I was trying to say.
      [4:82]

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        #18
        Re: Problems With Millennials

        Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
        Do you also feel, like me, that the guy in the video wasn't actually talking about 'averages' and a 'zeitgeist'? He seems under the impression that people aren't happy with their jobs today, but they used to love work, on average, way more in the past. He seems to equate making children feel special, to them being disappointed in their future work life.
        I honestly didn't watch the video because, as I said, I really have no use for making generalizations about huge groups. But I think it is a "golden age" fantasy that there was some period in time when most people worked for pleasure, not money. It was certainly never the standard at any time in MY experience - not for me, not for my parents, not for most people I know.

        As far as the effects of making kids feel special... well, a good family does that in a way that is both unattached to any real product (but is from love for the kid, however that manifests in a particular example of a happy family), and also related to actual accomplishments. I think, personally, that any gross statement about it, without many qualifaction and specifics, is far to simple to describe something extremely complex. Maybe I could say "where there is honest love there will also be expectations, but neeting those expectations is a target, not a condition of love. When the child feels this, he or she will know how special he or she is."

        Does that lead to disapointment in one's work? I dunno. I'd doubt it, though.
        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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          #19
          Re: Problems With Millennials

          Who is that guy? He used the words 'Through no fault of their own' a little too much. It sounded like he was pandering.

          As far as job satisfaction goes, it is a blessing to be able to feel... what's the word.. self-actualised?... through a career. I'm not sure if the speaker is wrong, with most of my friends and those a bit younger, we have been searching for 'our calling' so to speak. It drove me absolutely nuts with my husband. He was out of work and I was working part time because there's no full time work in my profession. He'd get a job and then kind of half-arse it cause it wasn't what he wanted to do for the rest of his life, but at the same time he didn't know what he wanted to do. I was just like: DO SOMETHING!! Work it out later. It wasn't until we had babies that he really knuckled down and behold... discovered his career.

          Job satisfaction is mainly an internal issue. I have made/recognised my 'calling' in life to help other people live the best life they can. I am lucky to have a job where this so obviously aligns. However, even if I weren't in allied health but instead in retail or whatever, I could still fulfil my calling, because it's about attitude, not achievement. Job satisfaction happens when you realise there's more to life than progressing (or even having) career. This idea that a job is part of your identity.. it's a false attachment. You are way more than your work. I love Ed Sheeran's lyric: I'll always be bigger than my songs are. He's spot on.

          Job satisfaction is a red herring. It's nice, but it's not the end-game.
          Last edited by Azvanna; 20 Jan 2017, 04:16.

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            #20
            Re: Problems With Millennials

            I watched the video a few weeks ago and thought it was very interesting all the way through. The guy makes some interesting points, IMO. I hate the title "Problem" with millennials, though. It's not a problem. It's a shift in perception and things we can do as a society to work with those whom are different. Isn't that what we are teaching our children and young ones? It's ok to be different, to be yourself? Well, we are now starting to see the effects of that in our work lives.
            �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
            ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
            Sneak Attack
            Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

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              #21
              Re: Problems With Millennials

              Looking forward to watching holo-television and seeing millennials rant about people born after 2050. These gosh darn kids just teleport everywhere and don't know how good they have it. In my DAY we had to fly on planes and it took us hours to get across the country. Watching holodeck porn while back in my day we had to dial in and wait 18 minutes for a shitty JPEG to load. I wish I had a damn android that did laundry. The 2050 generation just sucks.

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                #22
                Re: Problems With Millennials

                Originally posted by ThePaganMafia View Post
                Looking forward to watching holo-television and seeing millennials rant about people born after 2050. These gosh darn kids just teleport everywhere and don't know how good they have it. In my DAY we had to fly on planes and it took us hours to get across the country. Watching holodeck porn while back in my day we had to dial in and wait 18 minutes for a shitty JPEG to load. I wish I had a damn android that did laundry. The 2050 generation just sucks.
                Did you even watch the video? Based on your comment, I'm fairly sure you didn't. It's nonconstructive or relevant to the discussion we're having.
                �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                Sneak Attack
                Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Problems With Millennials

                  Originally posted by Azvanna View Post
                  Who is that guy? He used the words 'Through no fault of their own' a little too much. It sounded like he was pandering.

                  As far as job satisfaction goes, it is a blessing to be able to feel... what's the word.. self-actualised?... through a career. I'm not sure if the speaker is wrong, with most of my friends and those a bit younger, we have been searching for 'our calling' so to speak. It drove me absolutely nuts with my husband. He was out of work and I was working part time because there's no full time work in my profession. He'd get a job and then kind of half-arse it cause it wasn't what he wanted to do for the rest of his life, but at the same time he didn't know what he wanted to do. I was just like: DO SOMETHING!! Work it out later. It wasn't until we had babies that he really knuckled down and behold... discovered his career.

                  Job satisfaction is mainly an internal issue. I have made/recognised my 'calling' in life to help other people live the best life they can. I am lucky to have a job where this so obviously aligns. However, even if I weren't in allied health but instead in retail or whatever, I could still fulfil my calling, because it's about attitude, not achievement. Job satisfaction happens when you realise there's more to life than progressing (or even having) career. This idea that a job is part of your identity.. it's a false attachment. You are way more than your work. I love Ed Sheeran's lyric: I'll always be bigger than my songs are. He's spot on.

                  Job satisfaction is a red herring. It's nice, but it's not the end-game.
                  I agree. I think that's maybe a lot of why the conversation about this is kind of different here in Germany. Work-life balance here is more sane. As a result, people don't really tend to "follow their passion" here much. University and job training here is fairly specialized, so you're kind of limited as to what you can do anyway. The goal is still more or less to find a place at a company with a work environment that is somewhere between tolerable and enjoyable. Passions are for hobbies, and people here have lots of hobbies.

                  That being said, there's somewhat of a sinking in job satisfaction amongst younger people as well, and they tend to switch jobs more. A lot of it is just Berlin and the fact that a lot of entry-level jobs are with startups, which are famously insecure. You can lose your job within 6 months because the entire operation shuts down. I think some of it also has to do with the amount of time we're expected to spend at our jobs as well. I can't really speak for the US because it seems workaholism is relatively normal there, but in Germany, working more than 40 hours was almost unheard of in the past. Over the past 10 years, overtime has become increasingly expected. I think there's a general feeling with younger people that if you're going to be spending that much of your time somewhere and you're going to be relatively poorly compensated (because wages here have completely stagnated over the past few decades), you'd at least better like it.
                  Last edited by DanieMarie; 22 Jan 2017, 08:32.

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