Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Obviously, God is evil.

  1. #1
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,295
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Obviously, God is evil.

    Why imagine a good god when it makes just as much sense to imagine an evil one?

    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  2. #2
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,685
    Gender
    male
    Religion
    Muslim
    Location
    Germany

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Sadly, a lot of people don't think about that argument deep enough. As starters, the argument cannot be used to negate the existence of God, it only discusses the reasons for the existence of evil and the existence of God at the same time.

    The second mistake is that the argument begins with "If there is a God..." but it doesn't use all the other facts that come with and are associated with God. It's a straw-man argument at best. In other words, if you are going to assume there is a God, then you have to put into consideration everything that comes with it, and not pick and choose parts to build a weak image that can easily be attacked.

    If there is a God then he is all wise and all knowing. If there is a God then there is judgement day. If there is a God then all that's been taken for you will be returned. If there is a God then the wronged ones will be compensated. If there is a God the wronged will be content and satisfied with what they will be given. If there is a God the wrong ones will be punished. And so on.

    But all of this is really secondary if you really, really think about it, like I said before. The argument doesn't really discuss if God exists or not. So before going into is god good or evil, shouldn't we first be concerned with, is there a god or not? How can we know for sure? And if there is a God, how can we actually say what attributes this god has?

    That's the real question people should be thinking about, before moving to the other question. But that's just my opinion
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

  3. #3
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,295
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    The video actually dealt with the idea that a (the) supreme being is "good," and the lack of evidence for such a claim, the general concept of the major religions that god is good, and the way in which the "evidence" that is summoned to support such a belief doesn't - because the exact same "evidence" also supports the opposite point of view.

    That particular video is about logical and/or rational thinking (it is entirely possible to apply logic to imaginary situations - it is one of the golden virtues of logic). It supports a solipsistic word view rather than an atheist worldview.

    I don't think it was intended as atheist persuasion, or, at least, not as a stand alone argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumuzi View Post
    In other words, if you are going to assume there is a God, then you have to put into consideration everything that comes with it, and not pick and choose parts to build a weak image that can easily be attacked.
    I don't think that was really a straw man argument. It dealt with one issue, and only one issue, because it wasn't intended as a major opus of proof.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  4. #4
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,685
    Gender
    male
    Religion
    Muslim
    Location
    Germany

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    What does solipsistic mean? Sorry if it's a stupid question

    The video actually dealt with the idea that a (the) supreme being is "good," and the lack of evidence for such a claim
    That's also what I think is a straw-man argument. No one in that argument is trying to proof that god is good, that's what the speaker in the video is being illogical about. It is simply an explanation, one of many, as to why a good god could exist while also evil exists. Can the same explanation be used for an evil god existing while good also exists? Sure. Can it also be used to explain the existence of a neutral god? Yep. Can it also be used to explain a powerless but good god? Of course.

    But the speaker is failing to understand this. People are asked to offer an explanation, and that's what they offer. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a proof that god is good, nor is it intended as such. But the speaker still attacks it as such, because it's easier than attacking the actual argument for the existence of god.
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

  5. #5
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,295
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dumuzi View Post
    But the speaker is failing to understand this. People are asked to offer an explanation, and that's what they offer. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not a proof that god is good, nor is it intended as such. But the speaker still attacks it as such, because it's easier than attacking the actual argument for the existence of god.
    Well, we'll disagree on this - I see it as simply a limited discussion of a limited issue that isn't intended to be evidence of a larger truth. Just that people tend to conceive of a god that matches their hopes (a good god, rather than a evil god).

    Solipsism is the category of philosophy that says "Because we are limited by our instruments of perception (ears, eyes, tongue, skin, nose, and brain), and the way they work ("sound" is a vibration in the air, we "hear" it because of the way our ears function. If our ears functioned differently we could smell sound, perhaps), and the tools we construct are based on and limited like our senses, we can't be entirely sure that things actually are the way they seem to be. The best we can do is try for an approximate understanding."

    When applied to religion, it looks like a form of agnosticism.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  6. #6
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    7,838
    Religion
    Jedi
    Location
    elsewhere
    Phrase
    The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Benjamin Franklin would answer "Beer".

    My answer is "Pizza".
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  7. #7
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,685
    Gender
    male
    Religion
    Muslim
    Location
    Germany

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Good point!

    And also...

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Solipsism is the category of philosophy that says "Because we are limited by our instruments of perception (ears, eyes, tongue, skin, nose, and brain), and the way they work ("sound" is a vibration in the air, we "hear" it because of the way our ears function. If our ears functioned differently we could smell sound, perhaps), and the tools we construct are based on and limited like our senses, we can't be entirely sure that things actually are the way they seem to be. The best we can do is try for an approximate understanding."

    When applied to religion, it looks like a form of agnosticism.
    Ah I think I get it now, thanks for taking the time to explain that for me
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

  8. #8
    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    5,511
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Eclectic Pagan/Stregheria
    Location
    The Ozarks

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    Benjamin Franklin would answer "Beer".

    My answer is "Pizza".
    I agree with your answer!

    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

  9. #9
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    11,020
    Religion
    stregheria

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    I live with the idea that God is a fiction,BUT I also live with the unstated thought that I will be very happily surprised if when I die my belief is proven wrong,and the "Loving" god
    shows up and hands me a refreshing beverage and a tasty burger. Kind of like I am playing roulette and putting all my "Faith" on double Zero for a long shot.

    Place your bets folks........
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

  10. #10
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,295
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Obviously, God is evil.

    Pascal's wager...
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

Similar Threads

  1. Evil
    By Bartmanhomer in forum Religion and Spirituality Discussion
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 25 Mar 2016, 19:48
  2. Evil?
    By habbalah in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01 Feb 2015, 04:48
  3. Evil
    By nbdy in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 15 Jun 2013, 23:17
  4. What do you think evil is?
    By thalassa in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 04 Jun 2012, 04:55
  5. About doing evil.
    By Jotun in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 02 Nov 2010, 20:57

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •