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Thread: Atheists and morality

  1. #31
    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    But is that a moral or an ingrained trait to not eff up the propagation of the species.
    This was my point
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    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    Awesome reply, thal! Thanks for that

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    For morality to exist independently of human knowledge and perception, they have to come from somewhere other than human minds, individually or collectively. For someone that is explicitly theistic, that would likely be god or gods. Which is fine, but then you need to demonstrate that god or gods exist as something outside of the human mind objectively and without logical fallacy.
    This is what I was hinting at before, or at least that's how I understood objective morality.
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  3. #33
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Are morals maybe just the things we are ingrained to do or not do to keep our species alive?
    Are morals a biological imperative?

    Perhaps some of them (individually) are.

    For morality as a whole...I'd say its likely and that the reason there is so much variety between systems of morality and individual morals that do not overlap is a combination of cultural evolution and cultural adaptation (the anthropological term, not the common term for cultural adjustment)
    Last edited by thalassa; 18 Mar 2017 at 18:59.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    For morality to exist independently of human knowledge and perception, they have to come from somewhere other than human minds, individually or collectively. For someone that is explicitly theistic, that would likely be god or gods. Which is fine, but then you need to demonstrate that god or gods exist as something outside of the human mind objectively and without logical fallacy.
    And then just for fun, you get the arguments of whether the existing deities should actually be heeded for any reason other than a burning desire to avoid targeted lightning, random city destruction, various sentences of hellfire, etc...

    At the end of the day, there are any number of interpretations of the LoH (because he's a well known and easy target but I could pound on others if I were in the mood) that are really not anything I would call good. If there were a god that happened to be a fan of uncondition election then I'm gonna be really sympathetic to the devil.
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    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

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  5. #35
    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post

    And then just for fun, you get the arguments of whether the existing deities should actually be heeded for any reason other than a burning desire to avoid targeted lightning, random city destruction, various sentences of hellfire, etc...

    At the end of the day, there are any number of interpretations of the LoH (because he's a well known and easy target but I could pound on others if I were in the mood) that are really not anything I would call good. If there were a god that happened to be a fan of uncondition election then I'm gonna be really sympathetic to the devil.
    Avoiding punishment is humanities #1 reason for their actions I reckon.
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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Heka View Post
    Avoiding punishment is humanities #1 reason for their actions I reckon.
    I don't know...

    I said earlier that I'm a fan of civil disobedience when a law is clearly bad. Even if I believed in a god I would be willing to refuse bad law from the mouth-of-god, and suffer the punishment.

    I know I'm not alone in this.

    The other reason for doing/not doing something is that it's the right choice.
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  7. #37
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    It does happen that the law and the right thing are sometimes very opposite.
    I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up.
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  8. #38
    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post

    I don't know...

    I said earlier that I'm a fan of civil disobedience when a law is clearly bad. Even if I believed in a god I would be willing to refuse bad law from the mouth-of-god, and suffer the punishment.

    I know I'm not alone in this.

    The other reason for doing/not doing something is that it's the right choice.
    Yeah but that's cos we're intelligent enough to know that said law is stupid, and equally intelligent enough to either not get caught or have a decent defence.
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  9. #39
    Sr. Member Chessa's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    If I might derail the thread for just one moment...

    OP started this dicussion by citing Conservapedia. Conservapedia underwent a project to remove liberal bias from THE BIBLE. They have such a rigid view of morality that even the Big Man himself can't stack up.

    Now back to the topic at hand...

    While there are no objective set of rules followed by every culture, nearly all of them have some variant of the "golden rule", and most value empathy at least to some degree. And because humans are a social, co-operative species, empathy is an innate biological process that makes cooperation possible and relatively balanced. Anything beyond that can also be explained without a god, as it is stems from a need to not be kicked out of the tribe.

    Civil disobedience is a hit-or-miss thing. How it's viewed depends on your culture, and history. Rosa Parks? She lived in an individualistic society, and the aftermath of the Civil Rights movement shines in her favor. If you're from a society that values obeying authority (even when it's stupid), and your cause loses in the end, you're just a troublemaker who disrespects your group.

  10. #40
    Newbie Constantine's Avatar
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    Re: Atheists and morality

    I believe having a belief system is a must for moral guidance. Doesn't mean it has to be a religion, but everybody needs something to believe in and be moral for.

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