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Thread: Hodur's death

  1. #1
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Hodur's death

    So my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that after Loki tricks Hodur into killing Balder, Odin sires (through more than a bit dishonorable means but well, Odin...) Vali. Vali grows to adulthood inside a day and kills Hodur. My question is why? Why take the roundabout route to vengeance? Why not kill Hodur directly and in person?
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  2. #2
    Sr. Member Chessa's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    My first guess is, "Because he's Loki." He prefers not to take a direct approach and get his hands dirty. Just look at Baldr's death (through Hodor) where he could have easily thrown the mistletoe himself. There's just almost some unspoken law that trickster archetypes are never allowed to do things the easy way.

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    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    My cynical answer is because it's Odhinn, and he never does his own dirty work. But there is a possibility that there is some sort of strange irony in a brother-slayer being slain by a brother. All three of the gods in question... Baldr, Hodhr and Vali are sons of Odhinn, and this seems significant to me. Vali avenging Baldr was also foretold to Odhinn by a seeress in one of the Poetic Edda, though he was called 'Rind's son' and Odhinn's fathership was not mentioned. There is some UPG among Northern Traditioners that Vali killing Hodhr was Rind's revenge upon Odhinn for raping her... but I'm not inclined to think it's that straightforward.

    I have a personal theory that Loki is an agent of Wyrd, and that his finding a way around Frigg's machinations was a way for the Nornir to simultaneously slap Frigg on the wrist for thinking she could thwart them, and to ensure that Baldr was in Helheim for Ragnarok (and can thus be returned to life in a roundabout sort of way of 'surviving' the war). If I follow that theory forward through to Hodhr's death, it seems plausible to me that the Nornir also had a hand here. And They are very fond of using the gods' own sneaky plans against them. Odhinn may very well have had a different outcome in mind when he fathered Vali... he is very fond of his own intelligence and thinks he can outsmart everyone, including the Nornir... but Odhinn is not the supreme power of the Nine Worlds and the Nornir will ALWAYS have Their way.
    Last edited by Rae'ya; 21 Mar 2017 at 18:41.

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    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    Odin having a different scheme in mind makes sense. I thought there might be some form of binding law or vow preventing direct vengeance. I just have no idea what it might be. The Nornir turning one of his schemes back on him makes more sense in some ways.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  5. #5
    Sr. Member Chessa's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    Now that I think about it, Baldur and Hodur were basically Odin's only two 'legitimate' children. Had he just killed Hodur himself, he would have effectively killed the last of his linneage.

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    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    Quote Originally Posted by Chessa View Post
    Now that I think about it, Baldur and Hodur were basically Odin's only two 'legitimate' children. Had he just killed Hodur himself, he would have effectively killed the last of his linneage.
    So Vali is a replacement to keep his lineage alive?
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  7. #7
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Hodur's death

    Except that Vali is not Frigg's son (as Hodhr and Baldr are). Odhinn has plenty of sons... just not many with Frigg as their mother. So is his 'lineage' only the sons born to his wife, or all his illegitimate sons too? Remembering that in Norse culture, extended and combined families were not uncommon and were still considered full blood (including step children and nieces and nephews... there were special relationships between uncles and nephews in many cases). If we include all his illegitimate sons as his lineage, he didn't need Vali. Except that Vali survives Ragnarok (as do Thor's sons and everyones' daughters).

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