Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

  1. #31
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,260
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    When you say "It's the same steel used in the Middle East to make the legendary scimitar blades",is that what is known as a Damascus blade?
    Yup - same. Historically. What we call Damascus steel now, though, is pattern wielded & twisted steel, which is what the Viking swords in the studies were made of. That's known because there are known examples of cast ingots.

    I'm not sure if anybody has refound the technology to make wootz steel (last time I got curious the answer was "no"), and the pattern wielded and twisted steel was an attempt to replicate it. Wootz steel, though, is made in the refining process, somehow.

    Wootz steel:


    "Damascus" steel:
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 19 Apr 2017 at 08:51.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  2. #32
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    2,609
    Religion
    Shamanic Practitioner & Green / Hedge Witch with Hellenic leanings
    Location
    West Virginia
    Phrase
    Can't never did nothing till it tried!

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    Even in ancient Greece, the bow was seen as somehow 'cheating' because it allowed archers to kill at a distance, while the armed hoplites tended to come from wealthy families (on account of their armour and weaponry being so expensive.) The Greeks did use archers of course, but rarely against themselves. They saw nothing wrong with using them against outsiders, since these were considered barbarians anyway. Of course, the Scythian archers - and the Greeks used these - went a step further with poisoned arrows...

    One point about the Anglo-Saxons - they didn't (generally) build stone castles. That was the Normans who didn't arrive until much later, 1066.
    Not exactly stone castles but didn't the Celts and maybe other northern groups use the heat-melted stone forts in Scotland, perhaps parts of Ireland and northern section of England? Not sure how high they might have been but vaguely recall stone walls that show signs of being submitted to high heat and stockade's probably built upon them with villages or forts inside of them. Definitely not the castle type structure we think of now but still something like 8 - 12 foot tall mound walls is what I seem to recall reading about. Sorry been sometime since I read about them so not real fresh in my mind.

    Don't recall when the English long bow made it's appearance but it played havoc against opposing forces. It's range deceived a lot of opposing forces as they underestimated it. So many were using the short bow which had about 2/3 to 1/2 the range of the long bow near as I recall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    At least, when Greeks were fighting Greeks. I've gone off topic a bit though.

    I must say here that I'm not sure the original article is all that accurate. It does depend on the context of the find. Swords intended as offerings to the gods are never always all that good - they were intended to be symbolic with real swords used for fighting. Swords found in graves ought to be properly used for fighting - but of course, again they might have been symbolic of status.

    I've managed to find an interesting article about Viking swords and if anyone is interested do please pm me.
    That reminds me of some of the bog swords that were found. Some were gold or copper I think it was and highly ornate but very poor as actual combat swords. Similar to some of the sacrificed swords found in Nippon (Japan) or their ceremonial swords that date back sometime.
    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

  3. #33
    Copper Member Ula's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    586
    Religion
    Heathen
    Location
    WV

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    When you think of the Viking gods Odin and Tyr carried a spear and Thor a "hammer" though I found an article once that stated his hammer may have really been an axe and that hammer would have been a general word for a pounding tool. It makes more sense given the shape of it. Other than Freyr I can't think of any Norse god with a sword.

  4. #34
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,218
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post

    I think that the pop articles (I got to the Livescience article from a repeat on Fox) claiming that Viking swords were decorative are drawing overly broad conclusions based on a limited number of example. That's why I wanted to read the original article...

    (this is where Thalassa jumps in to talk about the deplorable state of science reporting in pop media. And would be absolutely right...)
    Lol, right!

    Find me the article title and author and publication and I'll see if I can get my hands on it (grad school library acess).
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  5. #35
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,260
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Journal of Archaeological Science: Reports
    Volume 12, April 2017, Pages 425–436

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...52409X17301025

    Abstract
    Vikings (800–1050 CE) are famous for being fearsome seafarers and their weapons represented an indispensable tool in their plundering raids. Sword from the Viking age often showed pattern-welding, made by welding together thin strips of iron and steel that were twisted and forged in various ways, producing a decorative pattern on the surface. In this work we present a neutron diffraction study of three swords from the Viking age belonging to the National Museum of Denmark. This non-invasive approach was used to allow us to characterise the blades in terms of composition and manufacturing processes involved. The study shows how the effects of past conservation treatments can either help or obstruct the extraction of archaeological information.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  6. #36
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,218
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Journal of Archaeological Science: Reports
    Volume 12, April 2017, Pages 425–436

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...52409X17301025
    send me your email address via pm
    Last edited by thalassa; 04 May 2017 at 15:20.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  7. #37
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,260
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    send me your email address via pm
    Thanks! You are a poor amature scholar living in the wilderness of ignorance's best friend!
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  8. #38
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,253
    Religion
    solitary pagan witch with a strong interest in Anglo Saxons
    Location
    South Wales Valleys, UK
    Phrase
    Phantom Turnips never die. They just get stewed occasionally....

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ula View Post
    When you think of the Viking gods Odin and Tyr carried a spear and Thor a "hammer" though I found an article once that stated his hammer may have really been an axe and that hammer would have been a general word for a pounding tool. It makes more sense given the shape of it. Other than Freyr I can't think of any Norse god with a sword.
    In England, the Tyr Rune is the most popular on swords and interestingly the military still stamp weapons with it (or at least, I know they did on shell casings up until WW2 - it may still be the case but i'm not sure).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post

    Don't recall when the English long bow made it's appearance but it played havoc against opposing forces. It's range deceived a lot of opposing forces as they underestimated it. So many were using the short bow which had about 2/3 to 1/2 the range of the long bow near as I recall.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That reminds me of some of the bog swords that were found. Some were gold or copper I think it was and highly ornate but very poor as actual combat swords. Similar to some of the sacrificed swords found in Nippon (Japan) or their ceremonial swords that date back sometime.
    Yes, spot on about the bog swords. Archaeological finds depend a great deal on the context and they don't always tell us whether weaponry was for show or for us. For example, in Anglo-Saxon graves, really large swords have been found in burials of men who were much too old to use them. It suggests they could have been carried for status possibly.

    The medieval long bow really started to make its mark (pardon the pun, monsno) by the 12th century - and especially during the hundred years war. Many of the French archers used crossbows - very effective at short range, but useless over a distance.

    Long bows are very hard to pull if they are to be effective, and archers on the Mary Rose were noticed to have a distinctive anatomy caused by the strain. Very effective though - could shoot through armour, a knight's leg, the other side of his armour, his horse's armour and kill the horse.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

  9. #39
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,260
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    In England, the Tyr Rune is the most popular on swords and interestingly the military still stamp weapons with it (or at least, I know they did on shell casings up until WW2 - it may still be the case but i'm not sure).
    It is generally referred to as the "broad arrow," and has been used by Australia, Canada, and India as well.

    I think that my WWII SMLE (UK) and my WWI-WWII SMLE (Australia) are both marked with the broad arrow. I'll have to check when I get a minute...
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 07 May 2017 at 15:23.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  10. #40
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,218
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: Did Vikings use swords, or just wave them around?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Thanks! You are a poor amature scholar living in the wilderness of ignorance's best friend!

    Lol, I had to request it, I couldn't get it online. Might take a few days...
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

Similar Threads

  1. A friend gave me this article about vikings in Canada
    By pillar in forum Heathen Traditions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08 Apr 2016, 10:51
  2. History Channel's "Vikings"
    By Chris the Bold in forum Heathen Traditions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 19 Oct 2013, 05:46
  3. History Channel's Vikings
    By Ula in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07 May 2013, 13:17
  4. Hi there (wave)
    By futurefaith in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 14 Aug 2011, 16:01

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •