Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

    It looks like that victims of sexual misconduct is coming forward. First it was Kevin Spacey, C.K. Louis and now Dustin Hoffman. At first I thought this was a witch-hunt but now I do believe it's real. So what's your thoughts and opinions with these sexual misconduct allegations?

    #2
    Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

    I have mixed feelings about it. I'm gonna voice some unpopular opinions in the current climate...

    1) just because its real doesn't mean its *not* a witch hunt--these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive
    2) there's a distinct lack of nuance being portrayed in some of these accusations and not all accusations are created equally, treating every accuser and accused as analogous and equal with regard to punitive measures is wrong
    3) we've created an environment where there's absolutely 0 burden of proof, bam, we automatically take the accuser's word for it in what is, essentially a he said/she said, she said/she said, or he said/he said story,
    4) many of these transgressions took place decades ago and, while that should have nothing to do with actual criminal actions or with actions that would have been deemed immoral or unethical then, in some cases, the actions that occurred were not taboo or criminal at the time,
    5) sexual harassment (which I think some of these accusations fall under better than sexual assault) has a) a really poorly defined legal standard and b) an even more poorly defined social standard, so poorly defined that all someone has to do is throw out a few buzz words and *poof* automatic victimhood and perpetrator is created when really, if one didn't state their discomfort or offense at the time, given that notions of consent *were* different, holding someone to our current standards of such is fucked up
    6) people *do* lie about sexual assault and harassment--the statistics around this are really shitty and really inconsistent (for rape specifically), but it does happen--its generally called in at 2-8%.
    Last edited by thalassa; 10 Dec 2017, 09:11.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
    sigpic

    Comment


      #3
      Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

      I think it has become way to political in nature,and less fact based.abuse is a bad thing,and should be addressed,as you say,with the proper concern.
      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




      sigpic

      my new page here,let me know what you think.


      nothing but the shadow of what was

      witchvox
      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

      Comment


        #4
        Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

        Ok. I agree that are quick to pass judgement in some of these cases. I know there's a lot going on with your politics too over there. I know nothing of that so I won't pretend I do. But the Hollywood part of things is something I understand.
        A lot of these men are known In the business, but because no-one has spoken up they get away with it. What's happening now is people realising that *oops* this is not at all ok. Were seeing am avalanche of accusations because the dam that's been holding them back is breaking down. Personally I'm relieved. I know a lot of others that are too. Because for the first time, our careers might not suffer if we call someone out. I work in this business. The second I entered it, I KNEW what Hollywood was like. It's pretty much the first piece of advice I got. "Don't make a fuss. You don't wanna be the one no-one wants to work with. Just smile and take it. Be compliant.". Now. I'm not in the big ranks even here in Denmark, I'm invisible (although I have had someone recognise me. That was weird). I have been lucky. I know actresses - and actors- who have had it bad. I saw it in my own Facebook feed the second this wave started. Relief. Our women are rallying, and being heard. There's one BIG guy in particular here. The reason I won't work with a certain company. Who prides himself on harassing, who will tell anyone listening tgat it's his right. That his life would be less interesting if he couldn't. Everyone knows. The media knows. He even got a nickname in the media to match the vile personality. It's always been used lovingly. He's a "real man", give him a pat on the back. He is, scarily, someone who can make you or break you. If you piss him off you're not working here again. Until now. This wave happened. And suddenly, finally, someone got their brain cells in order and realised that maybe he wasn't so great. For the first time, the media and subsequently everyone else, is taking the women's side against him. Taking his power away.
        Eh.. sorry about the rant. I've been lucky. I've had verbal attacks, but nothing more. Entitled men thinking I owe them something for giving me a chance. But I know others who have had to endure much more because speaking up would have put THEM out of work. I guess what I'm trying to say is just that... This has been coming on for a long time. There's gonna be more. I truly hope no-one innocent gets squashed in it, which is why we should probably take at least 10 breaths before we demand anyone accused if patting someone's butt be fired. But there is a while sick culture that need to change. That kind of change doesn't come quietly.
        Hope it makes sense
        You remind me of the babe
        What babe?
        The babe with the power
        What power?
        The Power of voodoo
        Who do?
        You do!
        Do what?
        Remind me of the babe!

        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

        Comment


          #5
          Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          I have mixed feelings about it. I'm gonna voice some unpopular opinions in the current climate...

          1) just because its real doesn't mean its *not* a witch hunt--these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive
          2) there's a distinct lack of nuance being portrayed in some of these accusations and not all accusations are created equally, treating every accuser and accused as analogous and equal with regard to punitive measures is wrong
          3) we've created an environment where there's absolutely 0 burden of proof, bam, we automatically take the accuser's word for it in what is, essentially a he said/she said, she said/she said, or he said/he said story,
          4) many of these transgressions took place decades ago and, while that should have nothing to do with actual criminal actions or with actions that would have been deemed immoral or unethical then, in some cases, the actions that occurred were not taboo or criminal at the time,
          5) sexual harassment (which I think some of these accusations fall under better than sexual assault) has a) a really poorly defined legal standard and b) an even more poorly defined social standard, so poorly defined that all someone has to do is throw out a few buzz words and *poof* automatic victimhood and perpetrator is created when really, if one didn't state their discomfort or offense at the time, given that notions of consent *were* different, holding someone to our current standards of such is fucked up
          6) people *do* lie about sexual assault and harassment--the statistics around this are really shitty and really inconsistent (for rape specifically), but it does happen--its generally called in at 2-8%.
          Now that you mentioned it, I'm beginning to question some of the accusations myself.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            I have mixed feelings about it. I'm gonna voice some unpopular opinions in the current climate...

            1) just because its real doesn't mean its *not* a witch hunt--these things are not necessarily mutually exclusive
            2) there's a distinct lack of nuance being portrayed in some of these accusations and not all accusations are created equally, treating every accuser and accused as analogous and equal with regard to punitive measures is wrong
            3) we've created an environment where there's absolutely 0 burden of proof, bam, we automatically take the accuser's word for it in what is, essentially a he said/she said, she said/she said, or he said/he said story,
            4) many of these transgressions took place decades ago and, while that should have nothing to do with actual criminal actions or with actions that would have been deemed immoral or unethical then, in some cases, the actions that occurred were not taboo or criminal at the time,
            5) sexual harassment (which I think some of these accusations fall under better than sexual assault) has a) a really poorly defined legal standard and b) an even more poorly defined social standard, so poorly defined that all someone has to do is throw out a few buzz words and *poof* automatic victimhood and perpetrator is created when really, if one didn't state their discomfort or offense at the time, given that notions of consent *were* different, holding someone to our current standards of such is fucked up
            6) people *do* lie about sexual assault and harassment--the statistics around this are really shitty and really inconsistent (for rape specifically), but it does happen--its generally called in at 2-8%.
            So, most of these I either agree with or just don't have anything to say about but 4 did catch my eye. I am opposed to attempting to seek legal punishment for something that wasn't a crime when it happened. That opens the wonderful door of Ex Post Facto. That door is explicitly and absolutely banned by the Constitution for a damn good reason and I'm not willing to open it for this. That said, I am (depending on context) perfectly willing to write someone off as honorless scum who shouldn't be trusted to accurately report the color of the sun for actions that may have been perfectly legal when they were taken. Our justice system has at various times allowed for all kinds of reprehensible behavior. That a thing may have been legal doesn't necessarily make it any less harmful. I'm not willing to grant a blanket freebie (individual passes based on context may be a different issue) on social consequences just because they laws at a given time were particularly ****ed up.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


            Comment


              #7
              Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

              What gets me is that it all seems to be women against men. I know that's a lot more common, and men are less likely to report sexual harassment, but there had to be that water boy that the actress groped or something like that out the somewhere, but we aren't hearing any of that. If you're gong to report Hollywood's fudged up sexual culture you can't tell me that's not an aspect.
              We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

              I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
              It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
              Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
              -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

              Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                The Al Franken thing bothers me somewhat...

                So - OK, he engaged in sophomoric idiot humor back when he was a comedian. I'm not excusing him, but, seriously - is it in the same league as the things Moore and Trump have been accused of?

                Maybe he should get the boot, maybe he shouldn't. I won't argue that one either way, but I do have a couple of questions: Are we cleaning the house until it is absolutely sterile? If so, why do we miss the giant chunks of turd on the living room carpet?
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

                  Maybe he should get the boot, maybe he shouldn't. I won't argue that one either way, but I do have a couple of questions: Are we cleaning the house until it is absolutely sterile? If so, why do we miss the giant chunks of turd on the living room carpet?
                  In Trump's case? He lacks shame and the GOP lacks integrity/a spine/both...

                  Moore? He lacks shame and Alabama may or may not care. We'll know Wednesday night. If Moore is elected, then we get to see if the Senate can find half its spine again. Years ago McConnel spearheaded the destruction of a GOP senator for sexual misconduct. The Senate can't prevent Moore from being elected or seated but it can expel him if it has the will and McConnel is familiar with how the process starts (Packwood resigned rather than see if the Senate would take the unanimous Ethics Committee reccomendation to expel him).
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                    I don't think it makes sense to rely on elected Republicans to show spine or integrity any more - there aren't enough with either or both qualities left. We've gone past that. But...

                    ... if they can show it here, perhaps they can show it during the (IMHO) upcoming impeachment.

                    I ain't a'holdin' my breath, though.
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      I don't think it makes sense to rely on elected Republicans to show spine or integrity any more - there aren't enough with either or both qualities left. We've gone past that. But...

                      ... if they can show it here, perhaps they can show it during the (IMHO) upcoming impeachment.

                      I ain't a'holdin' my breath, though.
                      There are at present 3-5* senators who don't necessarily care about re-election + Murkowski whose feelings on being primaried amount to, "Come at me, bro. I will win as a write-in candidate again. Being generous, an expulsion vote would require all the Dems + those six and thirteen more GOP senators. I could see McConnel and Collins going either way but even if both vote to expel, it'd still take 11 more.

                      * Corker and Flake aren't running again. McCain may not live to see the end of his term. Shelby will be nearly 90 when his current term ends and Hatch is older than Shelby. The two of them may decide to retire.
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                        I be noticing B. De. turning blue,or Magenta.
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: So Many Sexual Misconduct Allegations Coming Out

                          Well at least for Al Franken allegation got some evidence. I don't really like and care for Roy Moore which I find the allegations for him believeable. For the rest of the accusers, I'm not so sure.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X