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    What is Shamanism

    I once heard that while the priest receives his ordination from his superiors, from a tradition. A shaman receives his enlightenment by going off into the wilderness completely alone.

    Is this a reasonable statement for what a Shaman is?

    #2
    Re: What is Shamanism

    Hmm, Wikipedia seems to state that a "Shaman" is a person capable of perceiving and interacting with the spirit world, and use them to commune with them or influence our world. The can communicate with both benevolent and malevolent spirits alike, for purposes such as divination and healing, among others.

    In a certain sense I am a shaman, for I interact and influence what I believe to be another world, and their spirits with them.

    The connection to the wilderness is very present in western shamanism but it's more focused on spirits and ancestors in the east. Shamanism is more of a collection or a 'style' of spiritual practice more than a specific thing, to my understanding.

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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      #3
      Re: What is Shamanism

      Interesting. Can you elaborate on what you mean by influence and interact? Specific examples would be great to help make my understanding more concrete and less abstract (which is a common feature in Buddhism and Taoism i am familiar with).

      Comment


        #4
        Re: What is Shamanism

        Directly contacting spirits, for instance, appealing to their generosity, or even striking a deal with them could be seen as influence and interaction with the otherworld.

        Let's say I want to win the lottery. If I use trance and deep meditation I could in theory contact a spirit/demon/astral being/mystic creature that has a specific influence in luck to ask them to use their power to favor my goal. Sometimes this is done out of pure generosity on the part of the spirit, sometimes not and they ask for something in return. This could be easily argued to be a form of shamanic practice. By this definition, ancestor worship, demonolatry, and many other forms of sorcery/witchcraft that require contact with otherworldy beings can be considered as a form of shamanism.

        Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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          #5
          Re: What is Shamanism

          Shamanism is a difficult practice to define in part due to the question what is it. For many first nation and aboriginal peoples one first has to meet the requirement of having experienced the shamanic death which usually is an actual physical death experience to be called. Then you have to actually be "Chosen" by the spirits and identified to receive the "Teachings". Which is why the idea exists that many are called but only a few are actually chosen.

          Even for many under more Western pathways that "Death" requirement is still present. The difference is the death may no longer be a physical death but may be the Shamanic Illness which is a significant illness the person experiences. It maybe the total destruction of their lives as they know it. That may mean failure of marriage and loss of family and life as they knew it for instance. Financial ruin is one I hear quite often along with loss of all worldly possessions. But again, one is normally chosen by the "Spirits" to walk the pathway one does not chose to walk it themselves.

          Here is where the issue gets sort of murky. Shamanism is normally seen as world walking or being between the worlds. For many who claim to be Shaman's or Shamanic practitioners it falls along the lines that we identify it (Shamanism) as a practice not as a religion or spiritual way of life. Since the Shaman tends to work with the allies and Spirits to aide the people he / she works with or alongside the spiritual / religious part of the community. That means the Walker observes the same spiritual or religious practices as the community he / she serves or has their own spiritual / religious beliefs. For instance my own spiritual / religious beliefs fall more along a Recon Hellene structure as far as divinities go though my practice is Shamanic.

          That is not to say that the Spiritual / religious influences do not influence the Shamanic worldview and practice.

          Part of the clouding issue though is that many practices employ aspects or functions that are found beneath the "Shamanic" heading. Journey work for instance is not unique to Shamanic practices though it is heavily associated with shamanic work. The idea of Guides, Allies, Totems, Power Creature's are also not strictly shamanic though they were mostly found in that type literature. Yet today many of those terms have become generic and incorporated into nearly every facet of Neo-Paganism and are overused. So much so that many within Shamanic circles have ceased using some of them such as Totemism as a general rule.

          For many when they talk of "Spirits" they are not speaking of any sort of Demon / Angel. They would be strictly speaking of Ancestral Spirits or Land Spirits or what you might call elementals / Daemons in the old Greek sense of the word. Though some would also be speaking of what might be called "Self Spirits" I suppose in that they are the shapes one's fragmented soul takes when it breaks apart. When the Shaman goes into the Spirit World seeking to retrieve the person he / she knows the person will not be in human form. When the Shaman goes into the Spirit world seeking answers to questions in general anything can hold those answers so he / she never knows what will provide them.

          Another thing I personally see is that many think all a Shaman does is being a healer. Yet in many societies the Shamanic role held many facets. One could be a Warrior Shaman an lived with the warrior caste and did those things. One could be a healer and did those things. One could be associated with crops and herds (fertility / fecundity) and focused upon those things. One might be associated only with death and dying and passage into the next world and only focused upon that aspect of things. To function strictly in the role of being a Spirit Keeper. Yet in most books and concepts today everyone thinks to be a Shaman is to be a healer only.

          Another aspect is that of world walking. The Shamanic Practitioner walks the worlds. Most presume that means the upper world, the middle world and the lower world. Yet it doesn't always mean that. One thing you hear a lot within Shamanic circles is "To be a Shamanic Practitioner, is to be alone even in a room full of people!" That is often accompanied by the companion statement or some similarity of "And not all of them being alive!" The Shaman is often a loner and walks in a world of their own. He / she often has a foot in this world and a foot in the other world. Yet that other world many times is the land of the dead. The reason being so often he / she died them self. So they have experiences that unless the other person is a shamanic practitioner the people around them can not relate nor have experienced the things they have. It's also one reason I've heard so many say they'd give it all up in a heart beat. Because they didn't choose it the Spirits chose them and didn't give them a choice in the matter.
          I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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            #6
            Re: What is Shamanism

            Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
            Shamanism is a difficult practice to define in part due to the question what is it. For many first nation and aboriginal peoples one first has to meet the requirement of having experienced the shamanic death which usually is an actual physical death experience to be called. Then you have to actually be "Chosen" by the spirits and identified to receive the "Teachings". Which is why the idea exists that many are called but only a few are actually chosen.
            Interesting about the experience of death being important to the tradition. I wonder if this is in any way analogous to what some Buddhists refer to when they speak of the death of the self ( some Buddhists seek to get off the wheel of samsara by realising the fact the self doesn't actually exist: they don't need to let go, because there's nothing to hold onto anyway)?

            Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post

            Here is where the issue gets sort of murky. Shamanism is normally seen as world walking or being between the worlds. For many who claim to be Shaman's or Shamanic practitioners it falls along the lines that we identify it (Shamanism) as a practice not as a religion or spiritual way of life. Since the Shaman tends to work with the allies and Spirits to aide the people he / she works with or alongside the spiritual / religious part of the community. That means the Walker observes the same spiritual or religious practices as the community he / she serves or has their own spiritual / religious beliefs. For instance my own spiritual / religious beliefs fall more along a Recon Hellene structure as far as divinities go though my practice is Shamanic.
            This doesn't seem murky, it makes much more sense like this. If i understand you, you mean the exact manifestation of the path does not matter (Hellenic, or Germanic, or Shinto...), that while each is unique they all necessarily linked too. A Buddhist might say Buddhism may teach the Dharma, but the Dharma does not teach Buddhism.

            Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
            Another aspect is that of world walking. The Shamanic Practitioner walks the worlds. Most presume that means the upper world, the middle world and the lower world. Yet it doesn't always mean that. One thing you hear a lot within Shamanic circles is "To be a Shamanic Practitioner, is to be alone even in a room full of people!" That is often accompanied by the companion statement or some similarity of "And not all of them being alive!" The Shaman is often a loner and walks in a world of their own. He / she often has a foot in this world and a foot in the other world. Yet that other world many times is the land of the dead. The reason being so often he / she died them self. So they have experiences that unless the other person is a shamanic practitioner the people around them can not relate nor have experienced the things they have. It's also one reason I've heard so many say they'd give it all up in a heart beat. Because they didn't choose it the Spirits chose them and didn't give them a choice in the matter.
            Talking of being alone reminds me very much of the source of the quote in the OP. It's a shame i cannot post a link to it; the software here will not allow me. It was an Alan Watts talk in which he spoke of the Shamanic path being one of solitude, because it is a way to become aware of what the self really is. Can anyone advise as to how i can post this link?

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              #7
              Re: What is Shamanism

              Originally posted by prometheus View Post
              Interesting about the experience of death being important to the tradition. I wonder if this is in any way analogous to what some Buddhists refer to when they speak of the death of the self ( some Buddhists seek to get off the wheel of samsara by realising the fact the self doesn't actually exist: they don't need to let go, because there's nothing to hold onto anyway)?



              This doesn't seem murky, it makes much more sense like this. If i understand you, you mean the exact manifestation of the path does not matter (Hellenic, or Germanic, or Shinto...), that while each is unique they all necessarily linked too. A Buddhist might say Buddhism may teach the Dharma, but the Dharma does not teach Buddhism.



              Talking of being alone reminds me very much of the source of the quote in the OP. It's a shame i cannot post a link to it; the software here will not allow me. It was an Alan Watts talk in which he spoke of the Shamanic path being one of solitude, because it is a way to become aware of what the self really is. Can anyone advise as to how i can post this link?
              Regarding links, the link restriction goes away at once you have 15 posts that aren't located in either Introductions or Lols, Quizzes and Games. GMs and Admins can also step in to help get links in play that we approve of but you're already pretty close to breaching Newbie restrictions. At your current post rate, you'll have full rights on links later today. Just make a few more posts and then come back to this topic.
              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                #8
                Re: What is Shamanism

                Originally posted by prometheus View Post
                Interesting about the experience of death being important to the tradition. I wonder if this is in any way analogous to what some Buddhists refer to when they speak of the death of the self ( some Buddhists seek to get off the wheel of samsara by realising the fact the self doesn't actually exist: they don't need to let go, because there's nothing to hold onto anyway)?
                Been sometime since I messed with that area. But I seem to recall death of the Self deals more with ego and identity where being chosen by the Spirits usually is actual death. To physically cross the veil between life and death and be brought back. In some capacity I suppose you retain some vestige of death energy within your body and its effect upon your own living spirit or soul.

                One thing I've never actually heard discussed or seen deeply spoken about is how long one laid in death. Figure for many societies "Death" has many levels and may be seen as points where the body is a little dead and the soul has fled to dead and the body prepared for the grave. Yet even then given the time frame and society one might debate what is death. I died due to a reaction to medicine. My parents say I stopped breathing, turned blue, had no pulse and it was only because an elderly doctor came by that I am alive today, the young doctor had no clue what to do. How long was I gone? They don't recall, time sort of stood still for them. Even when I came back was touch and go for a bit till the medicine I reacted to was fully countered.

                I just know I was always a loner growing up. Some things you just didn't speak about that you heard or saw.


                This doesn't seem murky, it makes much more sense like this. If i understand you, you mean the exact manifestation of the path does not matter (Hellenic, or Germanic, or Shinto...), that while each is unique they all necessarily linked too. A Buddhist might say Buddhism may teach the Dharma, but the Dharma does not teach Buddhism.
                Not specifically. For many Shamanism is a practical way of life and is lived within the framework of their religious / spiritual beliefs. Yet Shamanism is not the religion or spiritual belief itself. So if asked what their religion is they will say they are Christian, Hellene Recon, Shintoist, Buddhist, etc. Asked what divinity they believe in and pray to they will say God if Christian, Zeus, Apollo, Artemis, Hekate, etc if Wiccan, Hellene Recon, etc. That are they may identify as practitioners of Animism / Animatism as their belief system.

                Today you see a lot of Neo-Shamanic practitioners who have incorporated a lot of Native American influences into their practices. The term Medicine Person gets thrown around a lot. Medicine bags, Medicine Wheel, Fetish, Power Animals, Totems are also terms that gets tossed into the pot a lot now. Yet in many ways they are taken out of context as its an example of the terms having deeper meanings than just the surface definitions. It's more than just cultural appropriation.

                Talking of being alone reminds me very much of the source of the quote in the OP. It's a shame i cannot post a link to it; the software here will not allow me. It was an Alan Watts talk in which he spoke of the Shamanic path being one of solitude, because it is a way to become aware of what the self really is. Can anyone advise as to how i can post this link?
                Here's one again where it gets sort of murky. In many situations the Shaman is a part of the society but also separate from the society. In first nation and aboriginal nations it was not uncommon for the "Shaman" to live on the fringes of the society. Those fringes could be on the very remote edges of the village or even separated from the people by being further out in the fringes physically. The person could also be removed by social placement in that there were certain conditions or requirements that had to be meet in order to approach them.

                In certain Native American nations you have positions that are somewhat shamanic title positions. For instance positions such as "Keeper of the Sacred Relic" which is a Buffalo hide and Skull or a special weapon or both. You have what are called Pipe Welders or Pipe Holders in some nations. Some nations I understand will still have "Moon Lodges" which is for women during their menstrual cycle and overseen by elder women. Other's will oversee Vision Quest, some will do coming of age rituals.

                The role of a Shamanic Practitioner and just what the Shaman's path is makes it difficult to define. Most of what people in neo-shamanism and western based shamanism speak of is really limited I personally think. A lot of what you see spoken about is core shamanism and neo-shamanism. Core shamanism sort of a compilation of base concepts found in many similar practices without the cultural bindings that hold it together. Neo-shamanism I think a westernized white washed packaged pushed for mass production and many times striped down for business usage when you look at some of the stuff being used for business retreats and such.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                  #9
                  Re: What is Shamanism

                  Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                  Been sometime since I messed with that area. But I seem to recall death of the Self deals more with ego and identity where being chosen by the Spirits usually is actual death. To physically cross the veil between life and death and be brought back. In some capacity I suppose you retain some vestige of death energy within your body and its effect upon your own living spirit or soul.

                  One thing I've never actually heard discussed or seen deeply spoken about is how long one laid in death. Figure for many societies "Death" has many levels and may be seen as points where the body is a little dead and the soul has fled to dead and the body prepared for the grave. Yet even then given the time frame and society one might debate what is death. I died due to a reaction to medicine. My parents say I stopped breathing, turned blue, had no pulse and it was only because an elderly doctor came by that I am alive today, the young doctor had no clue what to do. How long was I gone? They don't recall, time sort of stood still for them. Even when I came back was touch and go for a bit till the medicine I reacted to was fully countered.
                  That's an interesting story, one i may be able to identify with a little. I've had Isolated Sleep Paralysis my entire life, better known as Old Hags syndrome (in UK at least) which meant i was frequently visited by mostly malign spirits. There just wasn't a language, any cultural handles, i could as a child communicate the things i experienced. The closest i had was Christianity, but ultimately it was inadequate to the task, so i had to figure it out myself. Wasn't until i was 16 i came across a medical description of the phenomenon and at 24ish got formally diagnosed with it. Took me a while to get over.

                  Most people cannot understand as there is little language to describe such worlds in our culture, but i think people like yourself would understand, and so i suspect i may understand a little of Shamanic paths (i'm here to find out, either way ).

                  I think i differ from most pagans as I'm now a scientist and don't believe in literal interpretations - so demons weren't literally trying to possess my soul. But i agree that these interpretations are important as they speak to the experience of what happened in a way science never can (nor seeks to).

                  Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                  Neo-shamanism I think a westernized white washed packaged pushed for mass production and many times striped down for business usage when you look at some of the stuff being used for business retreats and such.
                  This is why i asked elsewhere about the discontinuity in European pagan practices. It seems to me the some European people want to reclaim those roots, but there is so little left they have to fill in gaps, ultimately leading to commercial exploitation and well intentioned failures, but a few successes too (heard some excellent 'neopagan' music recently).

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                    #10
                    Re: What is Shamanism

                    Originally posted by prometheus View Post
                    That's an interesting story, one i may be able to identify with a little. I've had Isolated Sleep Paralysis my entire life, better known as Old Hags syndrome (in UK at least) which meant i was frequently visited by mostly malign spirits. There just wasn't a language, any cultural handles, i could as a child communicate the things i experienced. The closest i had was Christianity, but ultimately it was inadequate to the task, so i had to figure it out myself. Wasn't until i was 16 i came across a medical description of the phenomenon and at 24ish got formally diagnosed with it. Took me a while to get over.
                    That's one thing I tend to find, there are not words to describe things. Unfortunately, the other problem is there were words but the definition of the words is changed by popular usage and the word then looses its once useful definition. That's an issue within paganism and shamanism right now. Older practitioners speak a word and it holds one one meaning but popular usage has changed it. Ironically the change not initiated from within but forced from without, especially so due to many 101 books incorporating it while they seek something new.

                    Most people cannot understand as there is little language to describe such worlds in our culture, but i think people like yourself would understand, and so i suspect i may understand a little of Shamanic paths (i'm here to find out, either way ).
                    Again, remember many core traits are common to many pathways. It's like the pathway known as "Hedge Riding" or "Crossing the Hedge" is a form of both Witchcraft and Shamanism. That is often associated as a form of European shamanic practice. Can't tell you its origin though I've been told it's both British and French. French perhaps from the Normandy region and all it's hedge country but perhaps the Brittany region as well. Though i've not found "Official" proof to support such a claim.

                    However, in general I do understand what your saying. I think many in the greater occult / pagan community are likely to understand or have a better knowledge of what your talking about.

                    I think i differ from most pagans as I'm now a scientist and don't believe in literal interpretations - so demons weren't literally trying to possess my soul. But i agree that these interpretations are important as they speak to the experience of what happened in a way science never can (nor seeks to).
                    There's more scientific based Pagan's / Occultist around than you think. But on the other side of the coin I think many of us always remember our Hamlet

                    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
                    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
                    - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

                    The trick is to keep an open mind but not to the point where we allow our brains to run out of our heads. Though I admit there are things my eyes have seen that my brains tells me can not have occurred. Yet the other senses seem to support what my eyes have witnessed even as the logical self screams it must be unreal. That's where the brain crusher comes in and sometimes ones sanity attempts to flee. Then you have to question if those literal interpretations where wrong or not? Some argue that's the difference between book learning and initiation with a teacher.

                    I've had both situations. Also had what might be called training by Spirit or divinity, that can be painful to be honest. Had a series of visions where I was supposed to practice a certain type of viewing but kept putting it off. Even knew where I was supposed to go do it. Well was cutting some tree's down and the tree's started to twist and turn in ways that they had never done in the past. Kept striking me across the eyes with their branches. Stopped cutting and went off and did the stuff I had been putting off and the burning and pain in my eyes stopped. Also stopped cutting the tree's and let my sons continue that and the tree's all started falling as they were being planned.

                    You decide if it was to get me to do as they wanted.


                    This is why i asked elsewhere about the discontinuity in European pagan practices. It seems to me the some European people want to reclaim those roots, but there is so little left they have to fill in gaps, ultimately leading to commercial exploitation and well intentioned failures, but a few successes too (heard some excellent 'neopagan' music recently).
                    I personally think there has been no continuation of any "Pagan" practices in Europe. Figure pagan simply meant county dwelling person for the most part. The cultus aspect of the religious social function is something entirely different and was both a cultural thing and a family thing. It wasn't a "Pagan" thing, so that is a mistake to even look for that aspect. Anything that might have survived is nothing more than "Folkish" practices or "Folkish" elements that might have survived which in and of themselves do not make them "Pagan". Those folkish elements have been incorporated into modern pagan belief systems but still are not "Pagan" in and of themselves.

                    You see the same thing in more mountainous areas in the US. To a degree saw the same thing when I was stationed in Scotland in the late 70's. Rural custom's that are part of the local and regional lore and familial practices and passed down through the generations. Many times it will have a touch of ethnic influences but also a hint of "Magical" practices once you strip away the surface. Unfortunately, the more developed areas get the more it gets wiped away or just lost to time. Though some of the familial type stuff remains but is hidden to outsiders and passed within the family.

                    Shamanism so far hasn't fallen to the "Channeled" trend that I see everywhere. Yet it is being changed and moved away from what many though of it as being just a decade or so ago. It's both a trendy thing now and become filler for a lot of books that wanted something new. The Wicca and generic craft books of the 1990's and 2000's saw the inclusion of lots of Native American material and generic core-shamanism material. It became trendy that everyone had to have a power animal or guide just as it became trendy that every one had to have a familiar. Even though familiar's where pretty much associated with ceremonial magician's and high magics or Satanism Witches and were Imps not your pet.
                    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: What is Shamanism

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post

                      There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
                      Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
                      - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
                      Horatio had literally just seen a ghost, so it's more a 'seeing is believing' moment. But i wholesomely agree; there are more things on heaven and earth... The strangest of worlds discovered so far is the quantum world, where particles exist in different states simultaneously. If we are to navigate those strange worlds we need the eyes of science. But i'm training to be a scientist so i would say that.

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post

                      Shamanism so far hasn't fallen to the "Channeled" trend that I see everywhere. Yet it is being changed and moved away from what many though of it as being just a decade or so ago. It's both a trendy thing now and become filler for a lot of books that wanted something new. The Wicca and generic craft books of the 1990's and 2000's saw the inclusion of lots of Native American material and generic core-shamanism material. It became trendy that everyone had to have a power animal or guide just as it became trendy that every one had to have a familiar. Even though familiar's where pretty much associated with ceremonial magician's and high magics or Satanism Witches and were Imps not your pet.
                      Couldn't the same be said for all religion? They use the language of their cultures to describe a transcendent experience, only to find people are enamoured by the language, rather than what it pointed to. I don't think that is a reason to worry, it is humans doing what humans do. But for those who want to see, at least there is a starting point, a shared fire from which to start the path into the darkness. I think i would have benefited as a child with Old Hags syndrome had i been exposed to even 'superficial' pagan ideas.

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                        #12
                        Re: What is Shamanism

                        Originally posted by prometheus View Post
                        I once heard that while the priest receives his ordination from his superiors, from a tradition. A shaman receives his enlightenment by going off into the wilderness completely alone.

                        Is this a reasonable statement for what a Shaman is?
                        The short answer is 'no'. The long answer involves repeating everything that MonSno has said... which I'm not going to do. I've known MonSno for a long time now and we rarely disagree on things related to shamanism, so I am content to point you to his answers.

                        The tricky thing about shamanism, neo-shamanism, shamanic practice, shamanists, shamanic practitioners and shamans is that there is some disagreement within the community itself as to what everything means and which titles can be assumed by whom. It's difficult as an outsider to understand the nuance and dynamics of shamanism without having some exposure to the whole range within the community. And it's a vast and varied range! From traditional indigenous forms of shamanism to core-shamanism to neo-shamanic practitioners to those who simply use some shamanic techniques for their personal inner journeys... the degree of communication with spirits and travel within the Otherworlds varies enormously. Add to that a diverse range of techniques for trance and altering consciousness (drumming, rattling, dance, entheogens, ordeal work, pathwalking, asceticism, sensory deprivation etc etc); a diverse range of tasks/jobs/purposes (healing, soul retrieval, community service, personal development, psychopomping, fertility/fecundity, spirit communication, prophecy/oracular work, divination, land custodianship etc etc); and an open-book policy on cultural context and we have literally thousands of permutations that can make one a shamanic practitioner.

                        Having said that, this doesn't mean that just anyone can pick up a drum, collect a set of 'totems' and call themselves a shaman. That's not how it works. The key to shamanism is the relationship to the spirits, whether they be the spirits of the dead, the spirits of the non-human living, the spirits of the Otherworlds or the spirits of Thisworld. And if we must choose a defining factor that separates shamans from shamanists, we need to look at service to a community (in Thisworld or the Otherworlds) and the manner of the calling (spirit-called vs otherwise). So it's not an easy question to answer without a fair bit of discussion.
                        Last edited by Rae'ya; 22 Aug 2018, 01:51.

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                          #13
                          Re: What is Shamanism

                          Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                          Having said that, this doesn't mean that just anyone can pick up a drum, collect a set of 'totems' and call themselves a shaman. That's not how it works.
                          Man and here I thought I was a demonic shaman of sorts. Tough luck.

                          Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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                            #14
                            Re: What is Shamanism

                            Originally posted by SeanRave View Post
                            Man and here I thought I was a demonic shaman of sorts. Tough luck.
                            Lol if spirit communication was the only requirement, most pagans would be 'shamans'!

                            Besides... you're already a god. Don't be greedy Sean!
                            Last edited by Rae'ya; 22 Aug 2018, 02:32.

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                              #15
                              Re: What is Shamanism

                              This is the talk from which i took the OP. First 5 minutes are probably enough. It seems to give an account of Vedic shamanism.

                              Last edited by prometheus; 23 Aug 2018, 01:09.

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