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Thread: The Battle For The Word Pagan

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    Jr. Member WyvernWorship's Avatar
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    The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Yes, I may anger many people with what I say in this thread, but this is not a battle specific to this forum; so, please do not take it personally.

    There is a resurgence of interest in Paganism in the world. For example, the Pagan community in Greece is growing daily as the religion was un-banned in 2017 (I still can't post links, sorry).

    These obviously are people trying to revive an ancient form of worship/devotion.

    On the other extreme, there is a new religious movement being formed called technopaganism (see Wikipedia).

    We need to discuss whether these two are compatible. If they are not compatible, there will be a war (again not confined to this forum)
    over who can actually label themselves as Pagan/pagan.

    The convention of UPPERCASE/lowercase that you have come up with in this website is not sufficient as it does not cover the spoken/verbal word nor does it account for the fact that most languages don't even have case - nor does it take any etymological considerations into account (i.e. the word actually has a meaning in Latin).

    Also, I'm not going to be fast at responding. This thread may take a couple of weeks to complete.
    Last edited by WyvernWorship; 21 Aug 2018 at 16:24.

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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    A pagan is a person who says "I'm a pagan," and believes it.

    So, I guess you ask them if they are pagan or not, and trust them not to lie.
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    Sr. Member faye_cat's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    There's always been discourse over who can call themselves <insert term>. There has always been people seeking identities and definitions and communities, and there has always been arguments over where those lines are. And it always ebbs and flows depending on access to information.

    On the other extreme, there is a new religious movement being formed called technopaganism (see Wikipedia).
    Jenny Calendar from the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer used the term technopagan, so it's not super new. Also, I fail to see why it would cause a war, it's almost like animism (based on the wiki page).
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    God in the baking SeanRave's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Wait there is a convention here on the usage of Pagan/pagan? Man I'm so out of the loop.

    Anyhow, there is no battle, for there is no authority, no repercussions, and no consensus. And even if consensus is established, by whom it will be upheld? The state? Not in a secular country. Independent institutions? How will they legitimately regulate the people who want (and will) use this label as they please?
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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    hay,you can't just go around saying the "P"word,like using the "N WORD"

    what you talking bout "willis"?

    Last edited by anunitu; 21 Aug 2018 at 17:26.
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    Jr. Member WyvernWorship's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    A pagan is a person who says "I'm a pagan," and believes it.

    So, I guess you ask them if they are pagan or not, and trust them not to lie.
    What if a group is taking violent action or threatening (verbally) to take violent action against the vast majority of Pagans, should we allow them to call themselves "Pagan-friendly"?

    There is such a group calling itself pagan - so, I'm not making this up. What if this group wants to obliterate the natural environment that some of us *worship*; should we allow them to continue to call themselves "pagan-friendly"?

    Yes, Pagans are friendly and allow other groups to take shelter under the umbrella term, but shouldn't we draw the line if they try to hijack our religion in an attempt to turn it into something it's not.

    If the Pagan religion does not exist in your mind, then explain how it was recently legislated as permissible again (in 2017) using the name Paganism in Greece.

    The headline reads:

    Greek State Recognizes Paganism as Religion | GreekReporter.com

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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    My version of paganism isn't a religion.
    We are all these things [...]. Pride, desire, compassion, cleverness, belligerence, fruitfulness, loyalty...and guilt. But above it all stands love. And if we desire to be more than human, that is the star by which we must set our sights.

    Questions of science, science and progress, do not speak as loud as my heart.

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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    The Hellene nation didn't recognize "Paganism" as a state religion it recognize Hellene Polytheism or Hellenismos as a religion. Hellenism is not Paganism, it's basically Recon Hellenism of the old Hellene Cultus system of Hellene gods & Goddesses. By recognition it gives them the right among others things to legally build temples and own land. Falling into the same recognition pattern that some Northern practices got a few years ago by name but not making them Heathen or Pagan either.

    So while Paganism might have practices that utilize the Olympian Pantheon such usage does not make it Hellenismos or Recon in its practice.

    That's part of the battle your inferring about between one group claiming "pagan" while insisting another not using it. Nearly the same battle that used to go down between the "Pagan" and "Heathen" groups. At one point even with the suggested usage of Paleo-Paganism, Neo-Paganism and Meso-Paganism as defined by Isaac Bonewits. That or the insistence a number of years ago that all the practices aligned to Med influences be called paganism and all the practices and all the Northern European influenced be called Heathen / Teutonic and those of central Europe be called Celtic. Then Eastern Europe be given Slavic labels. But I stopped hearing about that probably by the mid 2000's at the latest I think it was.
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    God in the baking SeanRave's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by WyvernWorship View Post
    What if a group is taking violent action or threatening (verbally) to take violent action against the vast majority of Pagans, should we allow them to call themselves "Pagan-friendly"?

    There is such a group calling itself pagan - so, I'm not making this up. What if this group wants to obliterate the natural environment that some of us *worship*; should we allow them to continue to call themselves "pagan-friendly"?

    Yes, Pagans are friendly and allow other groups to take shelter under the umbrella term, but shouldn't we draw the line if they try to hijack our religion in an attempt to turn it into something it's not.
    You can't prevent them from using the term pagan. It's the same thing with radical/terrorist Islam. An umbrella term isn't a shelter either, since it isn't because you're under the name of a path that it actually gives you diplomatic immunity or whatever. It is simply not possible for a minority of radicals to hijack a whole religion (and paganism in and of itself isn't a religion anyway it's, as you said, an umbrella term).
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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    The term "paganism" was revived during the Renaissance when writers were trying to differentiate the old traditions from their contemporary Christian faith. The term itself stems from the Latin paganus translated loosely along the lines of "country dweller" or "rustic"; thus it was initially a word describing a person of locality rather than a religion. However, because of its usage in ancient texts, medieval authors mistakenly believed it referenced a religious sect and thereby gave it the corresponding connotation. In actuality, there was a different word used to describe the "pagans" as they are called today, and that word too stemmed first and foremost from the location of the religious supporters.

    from here.
    Last edited by anunitu; 22 Aug 2018 at 00:03.
    I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up.
    Mark Twain

    Somewhat like Hunter S. Thompson who was called a gonzo Journalist,I consider myself to be something of a gonzo Pagan.

    The wizard be in: But be warned if you poke him to much,the standard wand of anal probing +10 may be utilized.

    It is interesting that humans seem to believe that they are the crown of creation,until nature drops a house on them....Just saying....

    I have decided that I no longer want to be an adult... If anyone needs me, I'll be in my blanket fort, coloring.

    Trust lost,is trust never regained.

    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

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