Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 62

Thread: The Battle For The Word Pagan

  1. #41
    Member
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    idk lol

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    I find it ridiculous how people are still arguing about this. Paganism in ancient times simply meant country dweller. Paganism also means anyone who practices a spiritual/religious faith that doesn't consist of the Abrahamic faiths: Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It's as simple as that.

  2. #42
    Bronze Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,346
    Religion
    Christian
    Location
    New York, NY USA

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
    But BH, that is her point. The Westboro Baptists would likely call you a false Christian (based on your respect for pagans and LGBTQA people, as you have demonstrated on this site). Both you and the Westboro Baptists would likely use Christian texts and teachings to support your beliefs as truly Christian. I prefer your version as I understand it, but I cannot disagree that the Westboro Church uses a Christian structure and Christian sources as its basis. The Westboro members are Christian, even if I think they are emphasizing the worst parts and ignoring the best parts.
    If the Westboro Baptist Church are really true Christian then they wouldn't be condemning people graves and being like complete ***hats. They definitely don't so no Christian values and structures for what they're doing.

  3. #43
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    10,180
    Religion
    stregheria

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Christianity has a split personality,one is an angry old man of a god,who seeks vengeance,and the pure child of a virgin,who only seeks love and caring

    The followers seem also torn between their name,christian and Jehovah,the judgemental and angry deity. might explain why some who take the name JESUS,seem never to fully understand, what the act of being christian means in a day to day connection to being HUMAN.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also,if I as a pagan can understand this,i ponder why those who expose Christ seem so dumb to this fact at all.
    Last edited by anunitu; 27 Aug 2018 at 18:41.
    I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a week sometimes to make it up.
    Mark Twain

    Somewhat like Hunter S. Thompson who was called a gonzo Journalist,I consider myself to be something of a gonzo Pagan.

    The wizard be in: But be warned if you poke him to much,the standard wand of anal probing +10 may be utilized.

    It is interesting that humans seem to believe that they are the crown of creation,until nature drops a house on them....Just saying....

    I have decided that I no longer want to be an adult... If anyone needs me, I'll be in my blanket fort, coloring.

    Trust lost,is trust never regained.

    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

  4. #44
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    11,077
    Religion
    relational theophysis and bioregional witchery
    Location
    coastal Georgia
    Phrase
    *a little bad taste is like a nice dash of paprika*

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    If the Westboro Baptist Church are really true Christian then they wouldn't be condemning people graves and being like complete ***hats. They definitely don't so no Christian values and structures for what they're doing.
    They do religion with Jesus, whether you agree with how they do it or not--they are Christians. Period. You may not like it, but they are also Christian. You share the same religious family as they do, same as a reform Jew and an ultra-orthodox Jewish terrorist, or your average Muslim and an ISIS member, or a racist Odinist and the rest of the Heathen community, etc. You don't get to choose who uses your label--unless you belong to a tradition that practices some form of excommunication or disfellowship*.

    *and even then, not you can't stop anyone from claiming your path, you can just show that you kicked them out...
    Last edited by thalassa; 29 Aug 2018 at 16:48.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  5. #45
    Bronze Member Bartmanhomer's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,346
    Religion
    Christian
    Location
    New York, NY USA

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    They do religion with Jesus, whether you agree with how they do it or not--they are Christians. Period. You may not like it, but they are also Christian. You share the same religious family as they do, same as a reform Jew and an ultra-orthodox Jewish terrorist, or your average Muslim and an ISIS member, or a racist Odinist and the rest of the Heathen community, etc. You don't get to choose who uses your label--unless you belong to a tradition that practices some form of excommunication or disfellowship*.

    *and even then, not you can't stop anyone from claiming your path, you can just show that you kicked them out...
    Ok. If you say so.

  6. #46

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by pragon View Post
    I find it ridiculous how people are still arguing about this. Paganism in ancient times simply meant country dweller. Paganism also means anyone who practices a spiritual/religious faith that doesn't consist of the Abrahamic faiths: Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It's as simple as that.
    The meaning of words change with time. 'Faggot' used to be a derogatory word for old people, but that's long been lost.

    Is Zoroastrianism really an Abrahamic religion?



    I'm here actually because i wanted to ask about the use of the word Pagan with regard to Indian traditions. If i were to refer to them i would say Hinduism or Buddhism or Jainism or... Collectively i might refer to them as Vedic (not sure Sikhism fits that though ). I would not have thought to refer to them as Pagan. I'm not sure how useful the term is if it means everything not Abrahamic.

    In general (and i've only read one page back so please forgive me if i've missed something), it seems many 'pagans' are reluctant to define the label. That's people's choice, but it won't stop other people defining what a Paganism is - looking in from the outside so to speak. As a community you may not want other people defining it -or maybe you do?

  7. #47
    Apprentice of Doom Shahaku's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,812
    Religion
    Eclectic Witch
    Location
    Iowa
    Phrase
    Move forward with purpose. -Sherillyn Kenyon

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    The meaning of words change with time. 'Faggot' used to be a derogatory word for old people, but that's long been lost.

    Is Zoroastrianism really an Abrahamic religion?



    I'm here actually because i wanted to ask about the use of the word Pagan with regard to Indian traditions. If i were to refer to them i would say Hinduism or Buddhism or Jainism or... Collectively i might refer to them as Vedic (not sure Sikhism fits that though ). I would not have thought to refer to them as Pagan. I'm not sure how useful the term is if it means everything not Abrahamic.

    In general (and i've only read one page back so please forgive me if i've missed something), it seems many 'pagans' are reluctant to define the label. That's people's choice, but it won't stop other people defining what a Paganism is - looking in from the outside so to speak. As a community you may not want other people defining it -or maybe you do?
    I believe Zoroastrianism is considered a historical precursor to Abrahamic faiths (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that?) As far as Far East traditions, it seems to be a gray area. A lot of folks view pagan as "anything not Abrahamic", in which case that may be an accurate application.

    But I have been seeing a bit of a split from including them in the past few years, where pagan is more defined as "a reintroduction or reinterpretation of faith systems not practiced in your time/place" in which case a person practicing Far East beliefs in the West would probably be considered pagan, but a traditional practitioner from that country, or someone who actually went and studied there, may not be, because they wouldn't be reinterpretting it, they would be learning it directly from practitioners. Ancient belief systems that are being/have been recreated for the modern times fall into this category. Native American beliefs may/may not. And, to be clear, this is an impression I've got from attending gatherings like PSG and talking to folks, but not something that has really been put into words.
    Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

  8. #48
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    7,486
    Religion
    Jedi
    Location
    elsewhere
    Phrase
    The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Zoroastrianism has likely influenced and been influenced by Abrahamic faiths but I wouldn't call it Abrahamic and I don't consider Ahura Mazda to be the LoH unless I'm particularly feeling like dabbling in soft polytheism. It is a quasi-monotheistic religion (Ahriman isn't worshipped and I can't be assed to do a compare/contrast between Ahriman and Satan. I'm also entirely too lazy to get into Zurvan who may or may not be a flat out heresy) but after that, differences start piling up really fast.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  9. #49
    Sr. Member
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    208
    Religion
    Hellenic Polytheist

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    I'm here actually because i wanted to ask about the use of the word Pagan with regard to Indian traditions. If i were to refer to them i would say Hinduism or Buddhism or Jainism or... Collectively i might refer to them as Vedic (not sure Sikhism fits that though ). I would not have thought to refer to them as Pagan.
    If you use "pagan" in the academic sense of a primary religion, then only Hinduism counts. Jains and Buddhists are certainly not Vedic either: their founders rejected the Vedas. And Sikhism was created as a monotheistic religion to compete with Islam and preserve the insights of Hinduism. Certainly some Hindus are happy to be called "pagan", if not "Pagan" — not that many in India would know the difference!
    https://www.religiousforums.com/thre...n-poll.161740/

    Incidentally, this discussion reminds me of the old joke that an intellectual is anyone prepared to argue for at least 15 minutes over the meaning of the word "intellectual". Perhaps a pagan is anyone prepared to treat the word "pagan" in the same way.

  10. #50
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    8,053
    Religion
    Alchemist and Neo-American Redneck Buddhist
    Location
    Frozen Northern Michigan, near Thunder Bay
    Phrase
    Where are the tweezers?

    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Once we get these things figured out, we can try to decide if the Yazidis are pagan or not...

    My take on the word "pagan" is this: "Pagan" is a nebulous term used to allow people who would generally be a tiny minority to join (in some sense) with other tiny minorities for a variety of purposes (such as discussion).

    Personally, I would say that attempts to put a more definite definition to the term are counter productive, since the reason for using the term in the first place would be lost.
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 13 Sep 2018 at 11:04.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

Similar Threads

  1. We Need a New Word
    By Dahll Haus in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02 Apr 2015, 20:48
  2. Four Word Story V 2.0
    By volcaniclastic in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 09 Jan 2014, 09:31
  3. And now a word from...
    By Dral in forum Catacombs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05 Aug 2012, 23:24

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •