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The Battle For The Word Pagan

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    #16
    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

    Originally posted by SeanRave View Post
    I still don't get the difference between Pagan and pagan, for there is no written consensus anywhere to be found for me they are the one and the same, as per the Oxford dictionary, which is in some way a consensus.
    As for atheist religiousness, look at LaVeyan Satanism or any other archetypal atheism.
    The "Pagan / pagan" distinction is very much confined to the sort of person who hangs out in places like this, I think!

    As for LaVeyan Satanism being a religion, this is really adopting the practice of some sociologists of re-using the word "religion" to mean "world-view". They then define Marxism as a religion, which infuriates Marxists as they would say it demeans their philosophy. But sociologists have always been the arch-Humpty-Dumpty-ists. I don't know what LaVeyans do, as opposed to say, but is it anything that a Hindu or Muslim would recognise as religion?
    Last edited by DavidMcCann; 24 Aug 2018, 08:26.

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      #17
      Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

      OK. I have reviewed what you have posted on your website over the past few years and am ready to define the word Pagan (again not for this forum but for *global* consideration in all languages).

      START DEFINITION

      Pagans are quinto-polarists who have derived their view of the universe from the five elements of Nature.

      Non-Pagans are those that reject the above sentence and try to introduce their own single-sentence to define Paganism using ideas and constructs foreign to us Pagans.

      Any person can label themselves as Pagan/pagan as long as they do not do what is mentioned in the second sentence.

      Pagans are not anti-technology but are indeed pro-Nature.

      The word PAGAN does not have 5 letters by accident but is actually an acronym in Ancient Greek for the five elements of Nature when listed in the order of Earth, Fire, Air, Ether, and Water. This is illustrated below:

      Petra - Rock/Earth
      Aithos - Fire
      Gon/Gen (with hard 'g') - Air/Gas
      Aither - Ether
      Nero - Water

      Most of these should be obvious to the modern Greek, but the elements of Fire and Air need further clarification.

      Among the evidences that Aithos meant fire in Ancient Greek is that it means "to burn" in contemporary language and that the Ancient Greeks named the country Ethiopia (originally spelled Aethiopia) after the element of Fire because of the extremely active volcanic crater Erta Ale.

      As for Gon/Gen, then Ancient Greeks felt that clean air was made of several individual components, among which were:

      Nitrogen
      Oxygen
      Hydrogen
      Argon

      It is obvious from the endings of these words that a root used to exist in Proto-Indo-European (PIE) beginning with a hard 'g' and ending with an 'n'. This was most probably 'Gen' with a hard 'g' and definitely meant gas/air.

      The reason this word has changed in modern Greek is due to people altering their speech to match words being used by their conquerers (i.e. the Christian Romans).

      Finally, we will explain why we must pronounce 'Gen' with a hard 'g' instead of a soft 'g'. This will require a long explanation. Originally in ancient-ancient Greek, each letter had a one-one correspondence between its symbol and sound. This is because the Ancient Greeks were language purists who believe in this concept. A corruption of this idea was first introduced into Sanskrit (an ancient Indian language). This corruption was called Sandhi/Euphonics. The introduction of Sandhi totally destroyed Sanksrit and caused it to break into Prakrits, which are dialects. These dialects were used by Indian Aryan invaders who tried to conquer Europe. These conquerers were eventually successful in introducing their Prakrits into Europe. These Prakrits had the rule of the soft 'g' and the hard 'g' depending on surrounding letters that you know about. This perversion eventually made it into Greek after its final Pagan Scholars were forced to flee to Morocco after the Christian Roman invasion. In short, ancient-ancient Greek *always* used a hard 'g'.

      END DEFINITION

      So if you want to disassociate the name of our religion, 'Pagan', from Nature, you're running out of reasons and ways to justify that.

      If you still do not agree that Paganism is somehow linked to Nature/Wilderness, then you face the consequences of our 9th dimensional Underworld Nature-creating Wyvern-god Takha-Kratom (which means in Wyvernian "The Highest Warrior") of whom our Pagan Scholars have informed us.

      He does not demand our worship or that we recognize Him as existent - but you gotta realize at some point why he's called "The Highest Warrior" - and why a person like me can stay safe in today's non-Pagan-friendly world.
      Last edited by WyvernWorship; 24 Aug 2018, 11:53.

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        #18
        Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

        Holy hell what. From WHERE IN THE WORLD did you get all of this?

        Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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          #19
          Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

          So....do only ancient Greeks get the right to call themselves P(p)agan? Also, since the Celts (mainly Druids) consider there to be only 3 elements, how that does affect your definition?
          ~Rudyard Kipling, The Cat Who Walks By Himself

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            #20
            Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

            Spiffy...

            How ya gonna fit that on the recruitment posters?
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #21
              Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

              I don't know what you're arguing about here. There are two types of Pagans: 5-Pagans and 9-Pagans.

              Non/nona/noni all mean 9. Now, read the definition again and it will make sense to you.

              Of course, a 9-pagan won't be happy with it and will try to rewrite it. You guys are really dumbed down.

              Paganism is a game more than a religion...

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                #22
                Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                Where are you pulling this information from?
                �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                Sneak Attack
                Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

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                  #23
                  Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                  Originally posted by SeanRave View Post
                  Holy hell what. From WHERE IN THE WORLD did you get all of this?
                  adding this for Juni,

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  source please,seems a reasonable question.
                  MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                  all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                  NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                  don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                  sigpic

                  my new page here,let me know what you think.


                  nothing but the shadow of what was

                  witchvox
                  http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                    #24
                    Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                    Originally posted by Juniper View Post
                    Where are you pulling this information from?
                    I could say, but I might get banned!

                    Incidentally, no Greek ever called themselves, or anyone else, "pagan". Paganus is a Latin word meaning a villager: some-one who lives in a pagus. In army slang, it came to mean a civilian, and in Christian slang, a non-Christian. You do find the word paganos in Greek, but only to mean a civilian. A non-Christian was a hellen.

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                      #25
                      Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                      Originally posted by DavidMcCann View Post
                      I could say, but I might get banned!
                      Send me a PM with the source, please.
                      �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                      ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                      Sneak Attack
                      Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                        I think he might have meant a sphincter JUNI

                        Where many stupid ideas are from.
                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                          Originally posted by WyvernWorship View Post
                          Yes, I may anger many people with what I say in this thread, but this is not a battle specific to this forum; so, please do not take it personally.

                          There is a resurgence of interest in Paganism in the world. For example, the Pagan community in Greece is growing daily as the religion was un-banned in 2017 (I still can't post links, sorry).

                          These obviously are people trying to revive an ancient form of worship/devotion.

                          On the other extreme, there is a new religious movement being formed called technopaganism (see Wikipedia).

                          We need to discuss whether these two are compatible. If they are not compatible, there will be a war (again not confined to this forum)
                          over who can actually label themselves as Pagan/pagan.

                          The convention of UPPERCASE/lowercase that you have come up with in this website is not sufficient as it does not cover the spoken/verbal word nor does it account for the fact that most languages don't even have case - nor does it take any etymological considerations into account (i.e. the word actually has a meaning in Latin)..

                          Words, as symbols, are meaningless without the meaning given to them.

                          Words, as an aspect of culture, like religion, evolve.

                          Etymology is intellectually interesting but irrelevant.


                          If some pagans are too petty to get over the triviality of being under a big tent, then they will come up with their own name for their tradition (and indeed, THIS is what has mostly already occurred). And if they can't manage that, then they are welcome to cry their little internet tears of woe that most pagans outside of the internet don't really give a hoot about.


                          Here, we really DGAF who calls themselves pagan, as long as they aren't an ass.
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                          sigpic

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                            #28
                            Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                            Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                            I think he might have meant a sphincter JUNI

                            Where many stupid ideas are from.
                            Threads like these really make me miss Medusa. We'd be all cat pictures and cheese up in here by now if she was still around.


                            Mostly art.

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                              #29
                              Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                              i miss the Duce every day.
                              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                              sigpic

                              my new page here,let me know what you think.


                              nothing but the shadow of what was

                              witchvox
                              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: The Battle For The Word Pagan

                                Originally posted by WyvernWorship View Post
                                What if a group is taking violent action or threatening (verbally) to take violent action against the vast majority of Pagans, should we allow them to call themselves "Pagan-friendly"?

                                There is such a group calling itself pagan - so, I'm not making this up. What if this group wants to obliterate the natural environment that some of us *worship*; should we allow them to continue to call themselves "pagan-friendly"?

                                Yes, Pagans are friendly and allow other groups to take shelter under the umbrella term, but shouldn't we draw the line if they try to hijack our religion in an attempt to turn it into something it's not.
                                Westboro Baptists are Christians, whether other Christians want to claim them or not (and they don't). So are Catholics, the UCC, the LDS, JWs, Southern Baptists, COGIC, and some 38000+ denominations worldwide, some of which don't consider one another Christian.


                                There isn't room in a polythetic classification system for disavowing something that can be classified under it simply because one doesn't like it or agree with it.

                                Within Paganism, there is no "our" religion, there are many religions. Many of which I think are often foolish or shortsighted, occasionally I've come across some that I find quite stupid, even those that I think are harmful--stupidity, lack of foresight, foolishness, and harm though, are not elements by which paganism is defined (or in this case, not defined).


                                Also, I don't have a 5-element view of the world.
                                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                                sigpic

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