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Thread: Pagan minimalists

  1. #11
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    I'm not a fan of minimalism though either. I like stuff. I like collecting certain things. I think things have value. What I object to (unless there's no way around it) is mindless consumerism. There's nothing wrong with being a magpie.

    And, if you looked in my craft supplies, as opposed to my crafting supplies, its pretty evident that I don't object to things. I just don't find a need for the type of practice I practice that I need explicitly pagan things or special tools. Rather, most of what I use in my practices is what I use on a daily basis...its life stuff, not china cabinet stuff.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  2. #12
    Member Eleanor's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingCompass View Post
    ... I don’t know, I can see the benefits (especially when it comes time to move) in keeping a more minimalist lifestyle, but I also like having my possessions around me. I guess I also like the idea of a witch’s cottage kind of look with lots of interesting, beautiful and magical things surrounding me.
    I love witch cottages. I was thinking of designing it a little that way, without buying unnecessary things. I still need enough space to move around.

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    I'm not a fan of minimalism though either. I like stuff. I like collecting certain things. I think things have value. What I object to (unless there's no way around it) is mindless consumerism. There's nothing wrong with being a magpie.

    And, if you looked in my craft supplies, as opposed to my crafting supplies, its pretty evident that I don't object to things. I just don't find a need for the type of practice I practice that I need explicitly pagan things or special tools. Rather, most of what I use in my practices is what I use on a daily basis...its life stuff, not china cabinet stuff.
    Minimalism is the response to mindless consumerism. It's not that minimalists don't like stuff, they just think twice before buying something. If something is of value to them they buy it, even if it's just for a collection.
    As to pagan things, I guess it's personal to everyone. Some people need ritual objects to be used only for ritual work. Mostly I'm ok with grabbing whatever I can find in my house.
    Last edited by Eleanor; 03 Dec 2018 at 09:17.

  3. #13
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post

    Minimalism is the response to mindless consumerism. It's not that minimalists don't like stuff, they just think twice before buying something.
    I disagree with the idea that this is what minimalism is actually selling...and I say this as someone that advocates shit like slow food, making and fixing things instead of buying them (heck we've made our own dental floss from ahimsa silk, peppermint oil, and Camilla wax), clothes, not using disposable plastics, minimizing disposable items in general--in short, lessatarianism.

    Being a conscious (or responsible) consumer is the response to mindless consumerism. Minimalism can be just as mindless as mindless consumerism... Minimalism's basic selling point (and why I disagree with it) is the idea that stuff is the problem and having less stuff will fix the problem. That's silly, the lie that the stuff is what keeps you from feeling fulfilled, which is no different than the lie the stuff will fulfill you. Its just feeding previous obsession (stuff) with a new obsession (having less stuff, figuring out how to have less stuff, figuring out how to figure out if the stuff they have is the stuff they really have to have, etc.). And, ironically, minimalism has spawned its own special stuff so people can get rid of their old stuff and replace it with minimalist stuff.

    What I believe in is having the things you need and use there when you need to use them. Or having something because you think its pretty and it makes you smile when you have to haul out of bed at 0430 for work everyday. Or because it makes your life easier and lets you spend more time playing with the kids outside. I believe in making sure that when you got/made that thing you need to use that it was as responsibly purchased (or the ingredients/parts to make it) as possible (whether that means 2nd hand, organic, sustainable, fair trade, local, well-constructed and durable, or whatever metric is applicable for that item) according to one's economic ability. Its also seeing that those items are handed off to someone that can use them when you no longer need them (if they are in good order) or otherwise disposed of as responsibly as possible if not (via recycling, composting if possible). And you can do that with 1000 things or 10.

    Addendum: I'll even add that I believe in the joy of the hunt for the vintage 1940's Hasko Mystic Tray Ouija Board to hang on one's dining area wall. I killed the heck out of that buffalo. Things--pretty shells for our hair, shiny rocks for our neck, pretty flowers to make dye for our clothes, whatever...things are what make us who we are, literally, what makes us human. We should not be ashamed of that.
    Last edited by thalassa; 04 Dec 2018 at 09:38.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  4. #14
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post
    I love witch cottages. I was thinking of designing it a little that way, without buying unnecessary things. I still need enough space to move around.


    Minimalism is the response to mindless consumerism. It's not that minimalists don't like stuff, they just think twice before buying something. If something is of value to them they buy it, even if it's just for a collection.
    As to pagan things, I guess it's personal to everyone. Some people need ritual objects to be used only for ritual work. Mostly I'm ok with grabbing whatever I can find in my house.
    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    I disagree with the idea that this is what minimalism is actually selling...and I say this as someone that advocates shit like slow food, making and fixing things instead of buying them (heck we've made our own dental floss from ahimsa silk, peppermint oil, and Camilla wax), clothes, not using disposable plastics, minimizing disposable items in general--in short, lessatarianism.

    Being a conscious (or responsible) consumer is the response to mindless consumerism. Minimalism can be just as mindless as mindless consumerism... Minimalism's basic selling point (and why I disagree with it) is the idea that stuff is the problem and having less stuff will fix the problem. That's silly, the lie that the stuff is what keeps you from feeling fulfilled, which is no different than the lie the stuff will fulfill you. Its just feeding previous obsession (stuff) with a new obsession (having less stuff, figuring out how to have less stuff, figuring out how to figure out if the stuff they have is the stuff they really have to have, etc.).

    What I believe in is having the things you need and use there when you need to use them. Or having something because you think its pretty and it makes you smile when you have to haul out of bed at 0430 for work everyday. Or because it makes your life easier and lets you spend more time playing with the kids outside. I believe in making sure that when you got/made that thing you need to use that it was as responsibly purchased (or the ingredients/parts to make it) as possible (whether that means 2nd hand, organic, sustainable, fair trade, local, well-constructed and durable, or whatever metric is applicable for that item) according to one's economic ability. Its also seeing that those items are handed off to someone that can use them when you no longer need them (if they are in good order) or otherwise disposed of as responsibly as possible if not (via recycling, composting if possible). And you can do that with 1000 things or 10.
    I think both of you define Minimalism differently.

    The various mildly extreme forms of it can easily merit Thal's critique but it isn't always expressed in extremes.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

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    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  5. #15
    Member Eleanor's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    What I believe in is having the things you need and use there when you need to use them. Or having something because you think its pretty and it makes you smile when you have to haul out of bed at 0430 for work everyday. Or because it makes your life easier and lets you spend more time playing with the kids outside. I believe in making sure that when you got/made that thing you need to use that it was as responsibly purchased (or the ingredients/parts to make it) as possible (whether that means 2nd hand, organic, sustainable, fair trade, local, well-constructed and durable, or whatever metric is applicable for that item) according to one's economic ability. Its also seeing that those items are handed off to someone that can use them when you no longer need them (if they are in good order) or otherwise disposed of as responsibly as possible if not (via recycling, composting if possible). And you can do that with 1000 things or 10.
    This is actually what I think minimalism means. Only buy things if they are of value to you. Not only the practical stuff, but also the nice to have things like you describe. So I guess we agree after all XD I guess we just have different views on the definition of minimalism itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    I think both of you define Minimalism differently.

    The various mildly extreme forms of it can easily merit Thal's critique but it isn't always expressed in extremes.
    Exactly, I don't see minimalism as something extreme. One could go to extremes with it, but imo that's just tormenting yourself.

  6. #16
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Pagan minimalists

    Don't buy things you don't need, don't want, can't use, fix things that can be fixed, reuse stuff that can be reused, and make new stuff out of trash.

    There's a philosophy behind that?!

    And here I always just thought of it as makin' do 'cause cash is tight. Seems I've been ahead of my time...
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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