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Thread: To smack or not to smack?

  1. #31
    bibliophibian volcaniclastic's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahaku View Post
    I really like the article I've been seeing recently about Inuit parenting and using storytelling to teach. They consider it imperative to never lose their temper.
    I don't really want to get involved in this debate, but I did want to offer my perspective as a qallunaut living among the Inuit since you've mentioned this.

    The article you read is the ideal, perhaps, but it is not the practice. Domestic abuse is still really widespread in the north, and it's not really anything to hear of an argument that's resulted in someone stabbing their girlfriend, or of a girlfriend setting her partner's car on fire. There are children who just run wild in the street in the summers, which in part is a cultural sense of community, but then there are also homes that lock their doors once the children go outside, and they stay on the steps until their parents remember about them. One of my coworkers frequently takes in a little girl whose parents simply forget about her.

    The Inuit are a resourceful, strong, resilient, and beautiful people, but if that article suggested all Inuit raise their children like that, the article is sadly misinformed.
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  2. #32
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    I really don't care about studies; I don't need studies to confirm for me what I've seen with my own two eyes to be true on numerous occasions.



    No permanent injury should be pretty self-explanatory; I'm not sure what your point was with this question. I don't teach children that those who are bigger, stronger, and more brutal get to call the shots. I teach them that adults get to call the shots, and that deliberate disobedience and disrespect will warrant consequences while they're in my home, under my roof, eating the food that I put on the table for them. Those are my rules for my house, and I don't care if anyone else have those rules for themselves, because that is absolutely none of my business.

    I'm not "brutal" by any means, I'm strict. There's a difference.
    The studies you quoted are old and out of date. If you haven't read them, it's better not to quote them. You raised the question of studies and then say (above) that you don't really care about them - in which case, better not to mention them at all.

    My mother-in-law used to say that when you smacked a child you hit the devil into them (her words, not mine). There are many better ways to discipline than smacking. It's not an either/or question. It's not brat or angel. Sometimes when a child appears well behaved they are anything but - they have simply learned to slip under the radar. The problem with smacking is that it's usually done when the parent is either at the end of their tether or in a temper.

    As for teaching a child that adults get to call all the shots - please, please, stop and THINK. Children need to understand that adults aren't infallible. That some adults are downright wicked - sexual predators, for example.

    Teach children to think. Learn to listen to what they're really saying.
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  3. #33
    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Almost everyone in this thread is speaking from a parental perspective. Listen to someone who actually remembers their early childhood and the effects things had on them. See things from the child's POV. It's like successfully training a puppy - you have to see the world the way a dog does in order to communicate with it. It cannot come to your level. Neither can a child.

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  4. #34

    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    The studies you quoted are old and out of date. If you haven't read them, it's better not to quote them. You raised the question of studies and then say (above) that you don't really care about them - in which case, better not to mention them at all.
    I never quoted any studies, and I never even raised the question of studies; somebody else did; I think it was Faye if I recall. I personally don't trust studies; I trust what I see for myself to be true; not what total strangers thousands of miles away tell me to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    There are many better ways to discipline than smacking.
    This is very true; I agree entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    As for teaching a child that adults get to call all the shots - please, please, stop and THINK. Children need to understand that adults aren't infallible. That some adults are downright wicked - sexual predators, for example.
    You're taking that statement out of context if I understand correctly. I do teach kids about Stranger Danger; once they turn eight years old I'm also going to start teaching them Krav Maga for the exact reasons that you mentioned; there ARE dangerous people in this world. That is actually a central point I try to make during the after-care process when I'm explaining to them why they were disciplined, that is WHY I'm so serious about discipline. I've been beaten and raped more times than I can count; I know better than most people how dangerous this world can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
    Teach children to think. Learn to listen to what they're really saying.
    Excellent advice; I couldn't agree more.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 26 Mar 2019 at 05:50.

  5. #35
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Personal experience: My youngest daughter was a wild one. We tried spanking - didn't work. She laughed, like it was a joke.

    Should we have spanked her more? Harder?

    We found other ways to discipline her that worked better.

    If other discipline methods work better, why hit kids?


    (P.S. Daughter grew into a wonderful, responsible, independent adult. I couldn't be more proud of her, either then or now, than I am.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    I never quoted any studies, and I never even raised the question of studies; somebody else did; I think it was Faye if I recall. I personally don't trust studies; I trust what I see for myself to be true; not what total strangers thousands of miles away tell me to be true.
    Running for POTUS?

    While it is a good idea to be wary of studies, jecting them because they ARE studies is falsely applied intellect. Look at the study. Evaluate it. Learn something new.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by B. de Corbin; 26 Mar 2019 at 06:18.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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  6. #36

    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Should we have spanked her more? Harder?
    Haha, yes; if she was laughing like it was a joke, you weren't spanking nearly hard enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    We found other ways to discipline her that worked better.
    That's wonderful.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    If other discipline methods work better, why hit kids?
    First, I don't like the way that's put, "hitting kids". I don't hit kids; I spank them. Hitting almost sounds like punching them or slapping them in the face; those are both things I would never do.

    Now to answer your question: Because there is a proper time and proper place for everything. Just like your spanks didn't work on your daughter, there are some kids who don't respond to punishments less severe than a spanking.

    Some kids love to isolate themselves and be alone for example; grounding them to their room would solve nothing . Other kids have the ability to entertain themselves with pretty much ANYTHING, thus putting them in a time-out wouldn't solve any problem behaviors either.

    I have yet though to meet any child who enjoys being spanked and fails to make the association between a spanking and their having done something bad. (Unless of course the parent is so scared of causing their child any discomfort that their spankings are laughable.)

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    (P.S. Daughter grew into a wonderful, responsible, independent adult. I couldn't be more proud of her, either then or now, than I am.)
    Splendid! Happy you found something that worked for your daughter personally as an individual.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 26 Mar 2019 at 06:32.

  7. #37
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    ... I don't teach children that those who are bigger, stronger, and more brutal get to call the shots. I teach them that adults get to call the shots, and that deliberate disobedience and disrespect will warrant consequences...
    For clarity: adults are typically larger, stronger, and more willing to control behavior through physical means than are children.

    Children are not dumb - they extrapolate and generalize from parents to "those who are bigger and stronger, and more brutal."

    You, by your own words, state that you are teaching this to children. In addition, you are teaching them (by your own words), that obedience, respect, and the food and shelter they need is controled by violence.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  8. #38

    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Running for POTUS?
    Hahahaha! I wouldn't want that job in a million years.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    While it is a good idea to be wary of studies, jecting them because they ARE studies is falsely applied intellect. Look at the study. Evaluate it. Learn something new.
    Thanks for the tip; I will indeed, if I actually care about the subject matter at hand, and I haven't already made up my own mind about it. I prefer to think for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    For clarity: adults are typically larger, stronger, and more willing to control behavior through physical means than are children.

    Children are not dumb - they extrapolate and generalize from parents to "those who are bigger and stronger, and more brutal."

    You, by your own words, state that you are teaching this to children. In addition, you are teaching them (by your own words), that obedience, respect, and the food and shelter they need is controled by violence.
    That's a ridiculously uninformed opinion you have, and you really have no place to say what my children have learned from me or how I should discipline them, just like I have no place to tell YOU how to discipline YOUR children. I expect the same respect and decency in return. Like you said; children aren't dumb. They know fully well why they were disciplined.

    I'm far more kind than I am "brutal", to use your word. They're smart enough to see THAT as well.
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 26 Mar 2019 at 06:44.

  9. #39
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    Haha, yes; if she was laughing like it was a joke, you weren't spanking nearly hard enough.

    ...

    First, I don't like the way that's put, "hitting kids". I don't hit kids; I spank them. Hitting almost sounds like punching them or slapping them in the face; those are both things I would never do.
    Now you're just trying to be funny.

    You don't know my daughter. Hitting her harder would have been clear child abuse, and never something I would inflict on a child.

    Hitting: striking with enough force to cause pain. Spanking: striking with enough force to cause pain by a parent or caregiver.

    Parse definitions, create alternate definitions, redefine. You may change the words, but you haven't changed the meaning - except to cause confusion.

    Please see Orwell "Politics and the English Language." http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/...nglish/e_polit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollomyn View Post
    That's a ridiculously uninformed opinion you have, and you really have no place to say what my children have learned from me or how I should discipline them...
    Ohoh...

    Now I'm ignorant

    A. I know something about you because I have read your posts.

    B. I am not telling you how to raise your children. I am responding - politely - to posts you are making on a public forum.

    Done with polite now, though. Getting all butt-hurt because of disagreement and playing a victim is not a good look for anybody over 10 or 12 on a public forum.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  10. #40

    Re: To smack or not to smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Now you're just trying to be funny.
    You didn't exactly make it difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    You don't know my daughter. Hitting her harder would have been clear child abuse, and never something I would inflict on a child.
    You're right; I don't know your daughter. I only know that you said she was laughing like your spanking was a joke. That indicates she was nowhere near even discomfort let alone "clear child abuse".

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Hitting: striking with enough force to cause pain. Spanking: striking with enough force to cause pain by a parent or caregiver.
    Interesting; the definitions I found for the terms in the Merriam Webster Dictionary are entirely different than the definitions you provided.

    HIT: a. To reach with or as if with a sudden blow; b. To come in quick forceful contact with; c. To strike (something, such as a ball) with an object (such as a bat, club, or racket) so as to impart or redirect motion.

    SPANK: a. To strike especially on the buttocks with an open hand; b. An act of spanking : a sharp slap or blow to the buttocks usually with the palm of the hand

    I'd say that the two terms are ENTIRELY different; even if we're going with your definitions, because "by a parent or caregiver" is, in my mind, a very important distinction ​to make.

    So once again, I do NOT hit children. I spank them, thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post

    Ohoh...

    Now I'm ignorant
    I didn't say you're ignorant. I said you had an uninformed opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    A. I know something about you because I have read your posts.

    B. I am not telling you how to raise your children. I am responding - politely - to posts you are making on a public forum.
    A. Something isn't everything, and text isn't enough to actually get a feel for someone, because communication is 93% non-verbal.

    B. I personally feel that you're calling me a child abuser, in as polite a way as you can muster. I've relayed before that I take extreme offense to being accused of such a thing for very personal reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    Done with polite now, though. Getting all butt-hurt because of disagreement and playing a victim is not a good look for anybody over 10 or 12 on a public forum.
    I'm "butt-hurt" because I feel attacked and judged by you. Call it playing the victim if it makes you feel better about resorting to insults, and giving up on being what you think of as polite. .....Or you could try to patch things up, smooth things over, and leave things on a positive note. The choice is yours.


    --Sollomyn
    Last edited by Sollomyn; 26 Mar 2019 at 07:55.

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